If our government keeps spending this way, we are headed there too...and soon.

Where would you like the cuts?

Defence, Debt-Interest, Social Security, Medicare or Medicaid.

realist,

all of the above as well as removing all loopholes from the tax code and ending all subsidies that go directly to corporations or industries. Subsidies for research should remain intact.

God told you usury is forbidden, but nobody listened. Charging interest for money that banks create out of nothing when we borrow is the cause of the problem. Google for DEFLATIONARY CRASH to understand why it is too late to fix it.

This is something that is going to be needed to be addressed. Lack of jobs going forward.

With technology, the need for workers drastically gets reduced, especially in the blue-collar fields. And technology also speeds up the process for many other white-collar jobs where hours billed are much less.

In the end, there is never going to be enough work for everyone and there will be less going forward. And with people reproducing probably more then needed, we have more and more individuals needing work every year.

We've created a society that lives on debt.

What, you don't blame not even one Italian? Come on, there's got to be at least one Democrat Italian you can blame!

What, you don't blame not even one Italian? Come on, there's got to be at least one Democrat Italian you can blame!

What about Obamatellie?

If our government keeps spending this way, we are headed there too...and soon.

We're definitely heading off the fiscal cliff...it's a matter of time...unless drastic cuts and salary reductions are enacted.

@realist11111 All of the above. We should have a constitutional amendment that prohibits Congress from spending more than we take in...in other words, a balanced budget. Imagine what we could do with the money if we did not have to pay all that interest. Our economy would be truly healthy, and not just seemingly better due to borrowed money trickling down.

I say we cut big government first!

I think many have never seen the breakdown of federal budget. Most of the money goes to Defence, Debt or to Old People. Debt cannot be cut, unless we default. Can't cut defence or money for old people, both lobbies are too strong. That leaves piddly amount of money that is targeted for cutting, will make no difference whatsoever in the grand scheme of things.

realist11111 I blame you. What have you done to help your fellow man?

Taxes. If they had a 15% sales tax instead of income tax the problem would be solved because then everyone including Crooks, Businesses and Politicians would be paying their share because everyone needs to buy things. No loopholes there.

This is what happens when you borrow and spend for so long.

At least with tax and spend you don't have that awesome interest coming back to bite you.

As for all the blame, this is Italy's problem, not ours. We have our own slew of problems but I guarantee you they're not as bad as Italy's.

Ah, the blame game....

Don't have a job...get one

Dont like you're job...find another.

There's tons of jobs right now, Sure...its not that $60k plus one you had before the recession, but there are jobs. And who knows, taking that crappy job might show good character towards getting back into a really good job.

You're in control of you're life...take control.

Ursamajor

I need a bailout :-)

These sorts of articles about these days and are going to get much much worse in coming days. The conservative austerity governments that have been laying off people by the millions and reducing costs regardless of the consequences are starting to reap the results of their handiwork. Sarcozy is out in France and Cameron in the UN is growing more and more unpopular daily. And virtually every other conservative government in Europe is feeling the pinch. The people are seeing that you cannot lay off people as a strategy of governance, nor can you can't cut your way to success.

If the Republicans here continue to block everything as they have done, the Bush Tax Cuts expire at the end of the year and "red-line" across the board spending cuts go into effect. When these things happen, the debt picture will change dramatically. That's why the GOP was so eager to get both issues kicked down the road until after the elections.

There has only been one way that any government has ever successfully retired its debt --- through inflation. The Reagan debt was retired this way, for example. An even better way is to have moderate inflation and a huge amount of growth simultaneously such as happened during the Eisenhower administration. But no country has ever successfully cut their way out of debt or laid off enough civil service workers to do anything except harm to the economy. Inflation is a perfectly legitimate way of getting rid of debt by simply paying it off with inflated dollars. Inflation would rescue the housing market. Yep, it would hurt for 3-5 years, but it is a situation for which "elastic" currency is a very good fit.

The government is not bankrupt by any means. In fact, the federal government owns far more tangible property than it owes in money. Some of it, for example a bridge on the interstate, might not be very liquid, but it is still value. When the government spends money to build something, it is always a mistake to call it "spending" as though there was nothing to show for it. It is still there, except that it is in a different form.

Since this country pays some of the lowest federal taxes in the world, it is not surprising that a military approximately the size of every other military in the world combined is an issue. And cutting welfare programs is about the only thing that the GOP can come up with. They would love to raise federal taxes on the lower half of federal taxpayers with various "fair" tax proposals, but the truth is that the oiwest half of the country in income already pays 70% of all taxes and fees if you also include state and local taxes and fees. And state and local taxes such as sales taxes and peoperty taxes, and even having to buy a state ID ($140 in Alabama) even though you don't drive are extremely regressive.

Some Depression-Era bank robber was asked by a reported why he robbed banks. He answered that it was where the money is. In many ways, this is what has the 1% so scared. You can't tax the poor any more because they simply don't have the money to tax, already paying one of the highest personal tax rates in the world. So maybe it is time to start taxing where the money is. And with the middle class taking the lion's share of the fall for the Bush Depression, there won't be any taxes to be found there either.

Everyone wants the government smaller and to cut the spending. Yet NOT ONE PERSON will give up anything they get (and feel entittled to). Sure we could cut medicaid part D but then you'll have to pay for your viagra and lipator yourself. We could cut social security but then Grandma and Grandpa will have to move in with you and their grandkids. We could end free public education. But then you'll have to pay for your child's primary education. We could get rid of the FDA. So the medicine you were sold as safe killed you. Tough sh!t no suing either. We could get rid of the EPA. If a company pollutes your drinking water tough sh!t. We could cut welfare and food stamps. Just step over the dead bodies and take your gun with you when you go out. We can cut defense spending. Sorry you lost your job at that defense contractor. Americans want every thing for free. Have a lot of leaves you raked up off your lawn? Just put them in the curb the town will remove them. Have a small pot hole infront of your house? Call the town.Why should you buy a bag of asphalt patch at Lowes? BASIC QUESTIONS: CUT SPENDING? OK. WHAT WILL YOU GIVE UP? The question isn't big versus small government. It never was. It has always been efficient versus inefficient. Cut the waste in the spending then tell us what you get that you are willing to give up. Don't try to say you don't get anything because everyone gets something.

@realist111111

"old people" as you call them are the ones that have already paid their dues to keep your government free checks and cheese incoming. But you left out a whole genre of things that can be cut. Shall we walk down the list...

Public television - not in the constitution as a mandate to pay for

grants for arts - not in the constitution as a mandate to pay for

public education - not in the constitution as a mandate to pay for

tzars - what the hello retards even think those positions should be funded by my taxes

It's time for your generation to step up to the plate.

The solution to our problems is going to be very devastating for MOST of us but if we don't do anything about it ASAP than the whole system IS going to collapse, it might even be too late. I just wan't to know one thing, are these politicians too stupid and they don't see the mess we are in? Why aren't they really doing something about it because this mess is going to devastate the rich and the poor alike. Guess who the poor is going to go after when the sh.t hits the fan, that's right, the rich and the powerful, no one is going to escape untouched.

@BAX

started out good............until you hit public education. That's a great idea, let's just cut public education so the only people who do get a decent education are the rich. The rest of us can just pass down stories and skills like the old times.....

Not to mention the fact that the U.S. education system is already pathetic when considering all of our countries advantages. It needs to be improved if anything.

And who's generation are you talking about? This country is still ran largely by generation X, all those tycoon 40+ year-olds that think they know what they are doing. And even some die-hard baby-boomers are still throwing the wrench in the gears.

Devil's Son, you are correct! I retired early and am financially secure. I am prepared to have my medicare and social security means tested. Social Security income is such a small part of my retirement income I can't even find it. There is WW2 Navy base and Air National Guard base near me. You can have it. (Try telling that to my Tea Party Senator.--they won't give it up. Go figure.) I'd go for the Clinton Tax rates at my income level. But, you have to come and get it through the political process. Don't expect a donation from me. I'll do my part so long as everyone in my circumstances does the same.

James - You're right, we do need less workers/people, yet people keep cranking out babies (and we give parents tax breaks for them) and we keep accepting immigrants. It's like complaining about being fat while shoveling cake in one's mouth.

@Robbie "It's like complaining about being fat while shoveling cake in one's mouth."

.....which is also a problem in this country lol.

A big drain on the system is that many immigrants (and some naturals), actually have kids in order to KEEP their benefits longer. I live in Texas, and you wouldnt believe how many children hispanic immigrants have, then when i wait behind them and their 7 children in the grocery lane, i have to wait an extra hour while the clerk figures out the food stamps they have.

The problem is that as long as they keep haveing children, the young ones qualify for ALOT of food help, so they basically keep having children in order to receive free groceries.

(not just immigrants, many white-trash worthless f*cks do it too, just not as many)

Ah Italians - always with the drama!

Sorry to disillusion you realist11111 - the order is Medicare, Social Security and then Defense. Here's a great app that shows how fast the money is being spent and where it's going.

There was a site I was on the other day that had a list where you could go through the budget at a lower level than just the small list of big hitters but actually gives you choices on keep or cut.

As for Public Education - there is nothing in the Constitution that gave the Feds control over Public Education - they've attempted to usurp that power from the states. The funding the fed takes is so that they can redistribute the funds to those states that follow their agenda. Cutting Public Education from the federal government means that yes we will have to pay more at the state/local level to cover the decrease in funding.

As with many of our laws - federal usurps power by saying it's Interstate Commerce - what a crock!

"A dramatic hike in taxes, combined with large cuts in public spending, a clampdown on tax evasion and a credit crunch from banks have pushed many Italian businesses to the brink of bankruptcy. "

When the government spends the country into poverty, and borrows most of the money available, and then raises taxes on everyone to keep the spending going, it doesn't leave much for the people to live on.

I wonder if Americans will wake up before it's too late, or whether we'll just keep on with Obama's spend, spend, spend.

realist11111 "Where would you like the cuts? Defence, Debt-Interest, Social Security, Medicare or Medicaid."

I'm sure there are cuts in all of them - What happened to the $500 Billion in cuts that Obama 'assumed' we could get from Medicare by eliminating 'fraud and waste'?

But even after making cuts, we still have to raise taxes - and raising them on the 'rich' and corporations just won't be anywhere near enough. We need to raise taxes on EVERYONE to get out of this mess - a great place to start is by letting the Bush Tax Cuts expire at the end of this year - the nice thing about that is it only requires that the government do what they do best - NOTHING.

Everybody says that the tax rates were 'fair' under Clinton, so just let them revert to them at the end of the year.

Don in MO "Sorry to disillusion you realist11111 - the order is Medicare, Social Security and then Defense"

I reviewed Obama's Budget projection for the next 10 years (Obama 2013 Budget proposal), and if you want to know where the REAL problem is, you only have to look at health care.

Obama projects a Deficit of $8.311 Trillion from Medicare/Medicaid/Obamacare over the next 10 years, which is about $1.6 Trillion more than the TOTAL Federal Deficit for those same 10 years.

That means that, without the health care deficit, we would actually have a SURPLUS of $1.6 Trillion over 10 years.

We need to address the out-of-control health care costs (including Obamacare) if we want any chance of avoiding a financial nightmare.

Personally, I think we need universal health care - same coverage for everyone - paid for through a combination of payroll taxes on businesses and workers, plus a modest national sales tax (about 3%, excluding food and medicines).

@bax, don't get me started on old people already paid for it, you are getting a lot more than what you put in. There is nothing in the constitution about giving social security, Medicare or Medicaid either, let's get rid of it all, take a chicken to the doctor when he gives you an asprin to treat your cancer.

@Roy - thanks for the projected numbers. Were those the latest updated numbers the CBO has put out for Obamacare? And did it take out the cuts to Medicare that congress keeps promising in legislation to make (the last I saw medicare reimbursements to doctors should be 30% lower than they are today)?

So what is different in your plan than Obamacare? It still raises the feds Healthcare cost. All it does is lump together all costs into one pool. Then we'd be like the UK where many still go outside the system to get their care from private doctors. I did see that you proposed a specific tax to pay for it - that's what the payroll taxes (Social Security & Medicare) were supposed to have done. Collect the money before it was needed. The problem today is that the government spent the money put in IOUs and now they are almost $5 Trillion of the National Debt that they can't pay back. That's why the urgency to do something about them today and not because their funds are in jeopardy of running out - that doesn't happen until 2030 or so.

@realist, with a name like that you're totally unrealistic if you place the blame on our current President. How do you think that the Bush administration (2 terms) planned on paying for 2 wars? Where do you think his administration thought the money was going to come from to pay for the 2 wars--any ideas? Did you also conveniently forget the nice "tax break" everyone received during Bush II's term in office, this while our country was fighting 2 unpaid for wars? Did you complain then or did you think it was a fiscally wise decision?

Maybe you're too young to recognize that the 1st Bush II administration was left with a surplus and no debt, is that the problem, your youth? What about NAFTA, were you concerned about the repercussions (that was negotiated back in the late '80's early '90's if I remember correctly. Jobs began to leave our borders then (the late '80's), check Del Monte, they opened a new plant just across the border (while they attempted to keep it secret) while an entire town began the slow downward spriral...Watsonville, Ca. (it was a company town for decades).

It's either you're youth or that you have one of those convenient "memory" loses, which is it?

Allison, I did not blame current president. I am old enough to take high interest in all elections since 1988. The point is, everyone is for smaller government and wants cuts except the services they use. Everyone wants to cut 'unnecessary' government departments until there is a oil-spill in your backyard, and then scream for government to do something, Corporations did not self-regulate, surprise, surprise.

This is our future. And who do you have to blame for it? Obama or Bush?

Causes of the debt since 2001 according to the cbo.

Debt from bush policies:
2001 & 2003 tax cuts - $1.7 trillion
borrowing costs for new legislation - $1.4 trillion
new domestic spending - 1.3 trillion
iraq & afgahnistan - $1.4 trillion
new defense spending - $663 Billion
medicare part D - $272 Billion
tarp - $16 Billion

bush's total= $6.7 trillion
We are still paying for all this crap today.

lost tax revenue from recession - $3.6 trillion
(Might as well throw this in the bush category since republicon policies got us here.)

debt from obama policies:
2009 recovery act - $719 Billion (this should be added to the republicon total too since its purpose was to dig us out of the hole they put is in.)
new tax cuts - $678 Billion
December 2010 tax cuts - $391 Billion

obama's total= $1.7 Trillion

To read the whole thing google: fact sheet the great debt shift and click the first link. It's an analysis of cbo data by the non partisan pew charitable research trust.

Democrats don't know how to market themselves, W was the worst president ever yet cannot seem to make a case against GOP based on this 8 years of disaster.

The demographics for gun related deaths in the USA. Which were over 90+a day in 1999...

The MAJORITY were white males over 45+years old, committing suicide. In 2005 this made up 55%..

The next largest demographic was black males, 18 to 24, committing a drug related crime...

I'm sure the break-down has not changed and I'm also sure the MAJORITY numbers are HIGHER now...

The Italian mess is primarily due to bad governance by the debauch PM, Berlusconi.

Iraqi wars stage managed by the Saudis, oil companies and their lobbyists are responsible for some of the economic problems of oil importing nations.

Before 1991 oil was hardly $30 a barrel and then at the height of Iraqi wars it shot up $145.

Now similar dramas are being stage managed on Iran by the greedy Saudis and co, oil companies and their lobbyists.

I am also a victim of the New World Orders' systematic elimination of all those who are over a certain age and those who will not bow to their rule.

I haven't worked an ordinary job since I was laid off 3 years ago. I have tried sending out my resumes to 100's, if not 1000's of prospective employers throughout the country. I am part of a network of many people who are of a similar background who are all over 50 without a chance of making a living within the new republic of greed.

I have a great deal of talent so I am making a living outside of the sphere of supporting a system that has turned its' back on all those they consider expendable and / or undesirable. I see the system for what it is, a giant meat grinder that cares for only the wealthiest few while the rest can suffer and slave for them. Our leaders are just puppets that do the bidding of their subhuman financial masters.

To blame any one world leader is folly as this one world globalization movement is run by the most wealthy and powerful people on the planet. The only things they are lacking in are compassion and respect for their fellow human beings. They are just parasites that infect humanity with their infantile need for more power.

The key to escape them is not to give up hope, rebuild your life doing perhaps something totally different than you were doing before the engineered collapse of the economy. Trade and barter for goods and services, use cash only when you have to. The more people who do alternative things will only starve the beast of a system of needed revenues to continue its' oppression of free people.

I see a bright future for those who turn their backs on those who are nothing but greedy and selfish parasites. Their entire plan of domination depends on your willingness to sacrifice yourself, your family and all that you have to them. Because once you are mentally enslaved by the New World Order you have essentially entered a pact with the most evil people on Earth.

If you want to free your body, you must start with your mind first.

Everyone always shouts about saving the country by closing all the tax loopholes. Well, guess who's against closing the tax loopholes? Big Business. And if they're against it, then most on the right in Congress are against it. Go talk to your representative and Senators and ask them point blank: Why won't you close the tax loopholes? If they have an 'R' after their name, they'll start making excuses. If they have a 'D' after their name, they'll just point to the other side. To be crude, it's called a circle jerk.

Thank God I'm not in a position of such desperation...yet. However, my advice would be that if one is brought to the point of desperate acts they should be directed at the cause, not at the victim. If you owe the banks screw them. It's their problem. If you need food, steal it. If you need money steal it from the rich. After all, it's their greed that put you in the situation you're in. When you get caught you'll be put you in jail where society will have to support you or your blood will be on the hands of the greedy B's where it belongs. Never give up your life unless you make those who created your pain feel some of their own. Thank you President Bush and your "Greed is good" cronies for bring our world to this. 'Heck of a job' you did.

Don in MO "@Roy - thanks for the projected numbers....So what is different in your plan than Obamacare? It still raises the feds Healthcare cost. All it does is lump together all costs into one pool. Then we'd be like the UK where many still go outside the system to get their care from private doctors. I did see that you proposed a specific tax to pay for it - that's what the payroll taxes (Social Security & Medicare) were supposed to have done."

The difference is night and day. If we adopted a universal health care plan like France or Taiwan, the overall cost of health care would be about 35% less than what we currently pay, and everyone would be covered. We have a HUGE amount of waste in the dysfunctional system we have today, with pharmas, insurance companies and trial lawyers and some doctors sucking the blood out of our economy and taking the advantage of the mishmash of plans currently allowed.

As for Social Security, it is basically a pretty sound system, with relatively minor 'tweaks' needed to make it sound (increase the full retirement age to adjust for increased longevity and lift the cap on earnings subject to taxes, and review some expenditures that seem to have crept into the system).

Medicare is a BIG problem, because people have the attitude that "I paid into the system, so I want my full benefits". The problem is that they are only contributing about 40% of the cost (payroll taxes on employer & employee), while demanding 100% of the benefits. Either we need to increase the payroll taxes to cover the actual cost, or cut some of the benefits (or a combination of both).

The other big drain from health care is Medicaid, which is currently funded with borrowed money since there is not a revenue source. That's what I would use the 3% national sales tax for (excluding food and medicine).

Kevin C-752389

If our government keeps spending this way, we are headed there too...and soon.

We are already here. The American people just don't know it. Our government keeps printing money to keep our economy going and bailing out other countries to keep our economy going. As we see with the Europe bailouts (billed to the American taxpayers as usual), it failed miserably.

It's just a matter of time before the American people realize that we are using taxpayers money to pay their salaries, and that is the same as using one credit card to pay off another. It keeps you deeper in debt and your head is just above water for just a little time.

The Great Depression III is upon us. It's time to start stocking up on some an goods, rice, beans, flour, because when that happens, there will be no more bailouts for anyone.

Great Depression 1 -The Crash of 1929 & The Great Depression (PBS) 1of6 - YouTube

Great Depression 2

www.loansafe.org/forum/great-depression-2/
Great Depression 2 - The last Great Depression was in the 1930's. Many people like our President think that we are currently in just a recession and.

@Chris-749391

I try to read and watch many different news sources, and on a CNN Int. business program the inflation idea has been floated for both Greece and Spain. The talking heads seemed to think this might be an answer. I have no idea what can be done this late in the game here, but whatever is done it will hurt.

Suicides are not only happening in Italy. They're taking place in Greece and England as people lose hope. Since the Western world has been so used to every convenience, I really wonder if anybody living in these countries, the US included will have the fortitude to withstand the coming trials. If the European economy really plunges our economy will also, as it is so tangled up with theirs.

In terms of corruption, Berlusconi is probably even worse than Cheney

Bigpicture-2908633 "In terms of corruption, Berlusconi is probably even worse than Cheney"

What's with the 'fixation' on Cheney?

The Vice-President's only job is to wait in case the President dies, and offer some occasional advice to the President, which can be accepted or rejected.

Give it a rest, already.

sorry roy, but,until we collectively understand who is calling the shots that destroyed and continue to destroy the fabric of our once-great country, we have no hope of fixing it.

They will inflate their way out of the problem, something Italy can't do now it's tied to the euro.

It will suck to be on a fixed income in this country or try to save for anything long-term.

Instead of falling into the trap of greedy and bigoted Saudis and co, oil companies and lobbyists, remove sanctions on Iran's oil and bring down prices of oil.

It will be a big relief to oil importing nations like Italy.

Iraqi wars gave PIIGS in Europe and heavy debts in the US, huge unemployment and losses of lives of soldiers. Iraqi wars were traps of highly greedy and beastly Saudis & co, oil companies and lobbyists.

Their perceived toughness may be part of the problem. When a man is expected to provide for his family, when it defines his self-worth, losing his job is devastating. American men are tougher psychologically because we no longer consider the man to be the sole breadwinner or even head of the household. Our marriages are more equal so the burdens are shared.

Hmmm, Italians need to be more like Italians and less like Americans. They have seen a lot worse times and survived. They eat well and romance well. We should all be like Italians and they should be less like us.

italians were tough until italy became a nanny state and now they don't know how to take care of themselves when the government money dried up. Taking their own lives means a little more government money for someone else though... so they are doing a public service?

The contrast that gets me is that these men are taking their lives because the can't find work, while we have so many here perfectly comfortable sitting around on their worthless butts all day letting men like these pay their way.

Even Italian Americans are weak. They let their mouths run too much. Look at Jersey Shore....LMAO!!!

And how do you think they got that wealth?

By rigging the governmental systems that were supposed to be for the people, and abusing the power bridge they enabled with politicians.

By lying, stealing, cheating and mostly, by exploiting working people.

Thats the spirit!!

...and I'm not being sarcastic

Easy for you to say Sunshine!Think more carefully before you choose your words!

Practice what you preach.

I do practice what I preach,unlike you I don't step in it.You kn ow what IT is don't you?Care to spare some more,I'm just getting started,or we can end it here.

I assure you, when your entire nervous system has placed every boundary possible to insure survival, taking your life isn't the "coward's way out." It takes some balls to off yourself, no matter your circumstances.

Outside of that, learn how to have some god damn compassion for people, Ursa.

Actually suicide is a dirty little secret of the for-profit medical industry. Suicides are increasing dramatically in this country and we are now right up there with Japan. The for-profit medical industry (including physicians and hospitals) have become very adept at draining the entire savings of terminal patients. They have managed to get Medicaid to pick up the tab after the individuals run out of cash. In fact, virtually all howpitals and physicians try to justify overcharging and over treating by saying that it is necessary to get riod of "excess property" so that a person can qualify for Medicaid.

The for-profit medical industry routinely iognores DNR requests, living wills and durable powers of attorney as well as patient instructions. In fact, a terminal patient in an ICU is one of the "sweet spots" for hospital and physician income. Keeping mom on life support indefinitely as a sort of memorial vegetable is okay, as is prescribing drugs like Aricept that actually worsen dementia is okay.

The for-profit medical industry is the single greatest reason for personal bankruptcies in this country. Over 60% of all bankruptcies result from unanticipated medical bills for a single person. And of that 60%, almost half had "acceptable" health insurance or were on Medicare. The for-profit medical industry is the quickets industry to turn over a person for collection --- 8 times as quickly as a bank would with a car loan.

So a lot of people are saying that the for-profit medical industry can just stuff it. They are looking more and more at ways of dieing with dignity, including hospice (which is opposed by the for-profit medical industry) and suicide. Personally, in my living will and power of attorney, I set aside a mechanism to sue any physician or hospital that ignores either my living ill and durable power of attorney. It is an alternative that certainly leaves your survivors with more of your savings and things that you have worked for.

@Ursamajor,

Suicide can be a very valid way of not subjecting your loved ones to the miseries that a for-profit medical industry can inflict on you through shame (don't you want your father to try everything?) and mis-representation (Aricept has been shown to slow dementia without disclosing that it also speeds up dementia dramatically when it stops working.) It is much more of a "coward's way out" to fear death so much that you make irrational choices.

Just saying

Suicide is not clean, unlike the TV Version, leaving a horrible mess physically and financially...

The LARGEST problem, the MAJORITY of the time it does NOT WORK...

Then you end-up; unemployable, unable to obtain insurance(health/life), and MORE BILLS...

Ursa my Friend, you have no idea what you are talking about. Suicide is not the act of a coward. Depression changes one's brain chemistry and without proper care, it can be just as fatal as untreated heart disease or cancer. People like Kim have remained strong for too long and then they break down because they are simply out of "fuel." The changes in your brain chemistry cause you to change your coping mechanisms and ability to make wise decisions. I would suggest you do some research on the subject before pronouncing judgement. Peace.

The fact is that the person who commits suicide hates themselves more then they love the familiy that is left behind. It is a selfish choice and one that affects the family forever. My husbands father killed himself and he found him. He was 16, now he is 62. The family has never gotten past it. If that sounds like I have no compassion for the person who killed themself, sorry it is limited to the ones left behind to pick up the pieces.

TJHARRIS, you are correct in saying that suicide has a devastating effect on those left behind, and sometimes there is an element of self loathing in the psyche of the person who takes their own life. But not always. Many, many suicides feel that by killing themselves, they are freeing the ones left behind of a burden which, to them, has become intolerable. So in their minds, they are doing it out of love. As incredulous as that sounds to you, this is what the changes in brain chemistry do to a person's brain. How do I know this? Well, for one, medical science has data that proves it and legions of kind, caring and compassionate mental health professionals have dealt with it. Also.....I survived a suicide attempt when I was a teenager (I am now 57). Depression is a real illness for which treatment is available. You can choose to believe it or not.

Peace.

I am glad for you and your family that you survived and learned to survive. I do believe in depression, my husbands oldest cycles through it and take meds to control it. We know when she is cycling because she will have her dog or son with her at all times-she says she would kill herself but never the son or the dog. We also watch over her very closely when it is happening. It has been proven that depression runs in families. My husbands family lives with it, he still has nightmares of not being able to save him. He was a Dr. and took and overdose-he knew how much and when to take it. Peace to you as well.

Actually Italy is very liberal, and has an extremely strong union presence. They even have a socialist party. It was the proliferation of the government and reckless spending that caused the problems in Italy, Greece and soon to be Spain.

But hey, don't let facts get in the way of your partisan trolling.

Jeff: In case you don't know, Germany has a very liberal economy and they are doing much better than the rest of Europe. It can also be said, that Germanny is much more of a socialist government than we are. In the meantime, Italy got into this situation with a center right government.

It's actually a lot more prevalent than you might imagine, The Golden Gate Bridges sees an average of one suicide about every 14 days. We used to see them reported on the news and in the papers but a few years ago that stopped. Not sure why. Depression, leading to suicide is a mental health as well as a social concern issue and not a cop out taken by cowards.

What I would like to ask my fellow posters here is where has our concern, compassion and responsibility for our fellows (men and women) gone? How have we become so cold and indifferent to those who, often through no fault of their own, have fallen on hard times? Have we no responsibility, at least morally, to take care of each other during hard times? Please help me understand, won't you?

Peace

I think the heartlessness lies in the misuse of anti-suicidal (as in ones meant to HELP suicidal people) phrases. People hear "suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem" and assume that it means is that suicidal people are trying to take the easy way out (at least that's how I've heard cold people use it) while I'm sure the person who originally coined the phrase would have meant more along the lines of "don't kill yourself, we can try and fix what's bothering you and it will pass with time".

I think what a lot of people don't get is just how crushing hopelessness can feel. There are days when I can barely stay focused because I'm so worried that I'll never pay off my student loans, never AFFORD getting married, getting a house, having kids, etc. and see no hope for my future or any solution to my problems. It feels terrible, and when that starts to be overwhelming, the problems don't feel temporary. Suicide feels like a very good idea and a very good solution (after all: you can't feel anything after you're dead, and the people left behind might be sad for a while, but they will be unburdened). If someone isn't lucky like me and able to snap out of the funk (or isn't absurdly empathic and can't see how much they'd be missed by friends/family), it's understandable that they would take those drastic measures. It makes me sick in my stomach some of the things people say about those who have killed themselves, I think it shows a real lack of empathy and caring.

Yes, but they keep threatening us with taking their business elsewhere. LET THEM! Most of our laws, since Corporations became persons (starting in the early 1800's) , have been in favor of corporations. The world would be a better place is we kept our basic economies small and local.

I am fine paying more for things that absolutely need to be imported, but most things we import we can produce close to home with less environmental/social/political... impact.

that sounds like a bullshiite number. source.

Your statement is so wrong it's hard to know where to begin... First off the earning you cite are worldwide. Exxon Mobil does not pay US taxes for all it's earning but rather the taxes go to each of the over 100 countries they do business in. The facts show Exxon Mobil pays more in US taxes that it earns in this country.

Wow....what a brilliant mind.....you should wear one of those tinfoil hats to protect it from the electromagnetic disturbances created by cell phones and government surveillance cameras....beware, they are all around you......watching......and listening.

The Obama plan is to continue the reckless spending - without a budget - that drove the European nations into the debt they are now in. ANYTHING would be a better strategy than driving our country to the debt levels of Italy, Greece, and Spain.

What reckless spending did Obama do? The Bush TARP and Obama releif fund were neccessary to save the banks, the auto industry and the states from bankruptcy. It helped states pay for services such as public schools, police, firefighters, road repairs, etc. 30% of Obama bailout fund went into tax refunds to spur spending. A small part of the budget went to encourage developments for Green Energy (windmills, solar, biofuels, natural gas, clean coal, etc.). Anyway, borrowing to grow the economy is what was and is needed. Companies borrow all the time to grow their business and so must countries in trouble do the same. Austerity at home, in business or for a country does not work and is a recipe for disaster. Its easy for a GOP senator or congressman to talk about austerity since most of them are millionares. Mitt Romney is building a house with a car elevator, his wife drives 2 cadillacs and he has plans to give $100 million to each of his kids, and he is talking about austerity for the average and poor. If that is the country you want than vote for Mitt Romney and watch a guy who is controlled by the ultra rich screw everyone else and put the US in a recession that will last for a very long time. Obama is doing all the right moves for the economy and for defense inspite of opposition from the right.

Yeah....AUSTERITY IS THE ANSWER.....and this article "highlights" the TeaPublican ANSWER to the crisis:

SUICIDE.

The TeaPublicans appear to want all of those in need of help to COMMIT SUICIDE....

Why it's just such an EASY SOLUTION....starve them....cut the benefits afforded to the poor, the sick, the unemployed, the elderly,sick and disabled to NOTHING and the problem will take care of itself....THEY WILL DIE AND NOT BE A PROBLEM ANYMORE.....AND THINK OF ALL THE TAX DOLLARS WE WILL SAVE IN ORDER TO PAY DOWN THE "DEFICIT" OVER THE NEXT FORTY YEARS.....

What is that you say? FORTY YEARS? Will it take that LONG?? Oh.....well, that's okay say the TeaPublicans, we will rid the world of nearly two generations of PROBLEM PEOPLE and help our BLESSED CORPORATIONS AND THEIR CORPORATE LARDER BECOME MUCH LARGER.

Those entitlements were planned and paid for, similar to a 401K for retirement, but not stock-based through the government. So, who entitled themselves to the entitlements? Are those the same folks that bought short stock options on the market from Offshore and the mainland.

The concept of entrusting and letting others "manage" your retirement money is about over. Can't trust the banking system, can't even trust the government who legislated for the demise of the economy.

Now people are desperate and kill themselves. I guess it's the economy's fault.......or people who don't care about people.