Or, hang out with Rick Santorum and re-live the 50s. Weee! What a hoot to be at the church sock-hop! LOL

Hopefully we'll never have to find out what Santorum would venture to do given power to impose his ultraconservative views on others.

Who said anything about changing people's beliefs? You were talking about governmental decisions imposed on citizens, as I was.

Really JK? I'm not a Rick Santurum voter, but what you said is just stupid! Even if it were true, I think it would probably be a whole lot better to live in America in the 1950's than in Islam run countries today!

Really?- I hope you didn't think I was talking to you. I was talking to JK from PA.

Unfortunately there are no universal rules for most of what is right or wrong or the degree. The Muslim right considers wesernerst to be demons, and uncivilized. In Afghanistan a guest in a house is considered protected. Not so in the west. Look at the amount of cheating in the west. The religious right Muslims would not put up with that. When Al Qaeta was in power in Afganistan, corruption and the drug trade were pretty much wipped out. Not so now. In some way what the west has is horrible because corruption is acceptable, and the population suffers.

If the Teapublicans have their way, the US will be just like them.

Really? Yes, your war on women is a joke: maybe you don't know any real women who aren't going to let lawmakers bar them from testimony, force them into vaginal probes and ultrasounds before "allowing" legal abortions, restrict their right to privacy, restrict contraceptives and hhold them up to every kind of ridicule imaginable for not towing the line. Thanks but you can keep your definition of a real woman (somehow I think there are all kinds of women who can 'kick your ass' without too much difficulty.)

Ladies - don't you just love how all these men are telling us how we should feel about Rick Santorum? Kind of reminds me of my ex-husband when he was cheating on me -- what cheating? It's was all in my head!!

There's no war on women, here --- no one's trying to tell us how we should feel --- we're imagining things.

REMEMBER IN NOVEMBER

BS.

Why did our government and other governments that support human rights support this " revolution " called the Arab Spring? What would come was transparently obvious: Denial of equal rights for women, of freedom of speech , or freedom of press, of freedom of religion.

We betrayed a reliable supporter of our interests in Egypt and the Middle East , Mubarak , and embraced creatures marching out of the 7th century pledged to impose Islamic oppression on us and the entire world.

The free world is ill served by its ruling class today. They are either incompetent or in league with the enemies of freedom of thought and fundamental human rights.

As long as we are at war in the Middle East, why not carve out a new country for women. Surely a lot of Saudi and Egyptian women will move there.

Religious conservatives, Muslims, Christians or ect., are birds of a feather. All foster the notion of authoritarian rule, a faith based government..

It must be true, no matter how much things change, the more things stay the same, definition of Taliban is the same no matter the country.

Ellis - You can't be serious. Muslims murder anyone who chooses to leave Islam but Christians pray for those that leave their faith. Muslims murder those that slander Islam, but Christians pray for those that say the vilest things possible about their faith. Muslims riot and murder if a cartoon is drawn of Muhammad but Christians pray for the artist when Christ is depicted in any disrespectful way . Muslims murder anyone who even looks askance at a Koran but Christians only shake their heads and pray if the Bible is disrespected.

Muslims bomb and murder innocent human beings and claim the Koran as the basis for their action: they throw acid on girls to keep them from obtaining an education. Christians say love your neighbor and turn the other cheek.

If you truly equate these actions then your powers of analysis are seriously deficient. I suggest a test of your hypothesis. You head into the Bible Belt in America , go down on a street corner about noon and start vilifying Christians and , then , burn a Bible. After you have done this and see nothing happens to you, your next travel to Pakistan or Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia and do the same. You go out to a street corner about noon and begin to vilify Muslims and Islam. Then you pull out a Koran and burn it. See how your treatment by Muslims differs from your treatment by Christians.

Quick! Name the last person who went to a town in the Bible Belt, vilified Christians, and burned a bible. Yeah, didn't think you could.

Stephen - That is why we have 3 branches of government with separation of powers. Even if by some weird chance Santorum got elected, he couldn't just impose his will.

Gee, I wonder if womwn's rights groups in this Country are still 'enthralled' with Obama over his support for 'popular revolution' against the Mubarak regime now?

It would appear that the 'Arab Spring' has turned into an 'Arab Winter' for women.

Yet somehow people are saying Obama is imposing his will all over the place, how come he is able to do it but Saint Orum wouldn't be capable?

This is just ridiculous.

Egypt made their choices themselves both during the uprising and then at the polls. Now they have to reep their rewards, exchanging one set of repression for another.

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

The real turn in the Arab Spring is becoming more and more apparent. The goal is to turn the whole region back to extremist rule. The women there had made progress in some of the countries, but those that went into Arab spring will soon end that and the barbaric traditions will return. As more and more flood into our country, welcomed for some unknown reason by this administration, we will grow more and more endanger of the same thing. Wake up people. Syria at least allows women to be more modern, yet everyone says we should topple this regime too. Why? We have no knowledge of the course of events there, nor do we know who the "rebels" are. We need to stay out of things. Libya was a prime example of what we should not have done. Some cultures can only live quietly when a very strong hand is in charge. Unlike ours which is chafing more and more at the current trend toward desicratign the Constitution and disregarding its provisions that have served us well for over 200 years. This administration has acted rashly bombing and send troops without the approval of Congress and yet the real danger in that area to us, IRAN, has been kid gloved with disapproval letters and santions. Why? Oil goes up and up and up bringing gas up and up. The EPA radical new regulations cause the closing of three refineries in PA. The president gives IMEM money to south american countries to build and/or re-work refineries while we haven't built one here in decades. Obama made call after call yesterday to Democrat Senators to insure that the Keystone Pipeline was once again turned down by Harry and his henchmen. Hasn't anyone seen the big picture that could be forming here? Or have you all been blinded by his singing?

Westerners have watched the "Arab Spring" with wonder and awe at the forces of "democracy" at work. Obama has very wisely chosen not to interfere except to prevent mass killings in Libya and to diplomatically try to intervene in Egypt to try to stop the mass likkings of Christians. The Republicans, especially John McCain, savaged him in both cases, so my guess is that the Syrians are on their own.

This was never what the media-fed people in this country thought it was. Richard Engle reminded people over and over that this was a fundamentalist-fed revolution, but no one seemed to listen. So you can't blame it so much on the media. Maybe it's America's love affair with the myth of democracy. Ambrose Bierce said that democracy was four wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Well, democracy is what we are seeing happen.

Tunisia started out looking like try might make some changes. But the same old characters came out on top after making deals with Islamic fundamentalists. They might advance a little, bit it is unlikely at this point. Too bad for women and educated youth. At least they're a relatively peaceful country.

Egypt, after years of supporting Mubarrak's brutual repression of the Muslim Brotherhood and other Muslim social organizations, was tossed out on his ear along with his billionaire family. He had done some good things, but mostly secular actions such as women's rights and protections of the Coptics. But he was a facist dictator and is gone. This hands the government back to the Islamic fundamentalists within the MB and other groups. To bad for women, the tourist industry, Coptic Christians, and moderate Muslims, even the majority of the MB. The military will go along with the clerics in order to stay in power. The repression, especially of women, youth, and Christians, will be brutal. And Israel can expect far more trouble from Egypt than Iran because the Egyptian military will eventually have to use Israel as a boogeyman to maintain its position.

Libya is already in the crapper. The eastern tribes that are now in power are the most fundamentalist Muslims in the country. They are the suppliers of the largest numbers of Taliban "foreign fighters" in Afghanistan, al-Quaeda, and al-Quaeda in Iraq. Now they have millions of weapons to supply to these elements as well and potentially a huge amount of oil money as well in a couple of years. This was just one group of fundamentalists replacing a slightly more secular group of fundamentalists. Too bad for women, youth, and those not affiliated with one of the "winning" tribes. The Tuareg might well reassert themselves with their newfound weapons and take back the southern half of Libya. Libya could well ally itself with Egypt's military, especially if war with Egypt was in the offing.

Saudi Arabia is in a precarious situation. It is filled with "guest workers" who are both Shiite and Sunni. They lucked out when Saudis blew up the WTC on 9/11. A friendly W gave them a free pass and attacked Iraq. But the military does not trust the Saudis. They understand who finances most of the terrorism around the world and Iran always plays second fiddle to the Saudis. And ALL terrorism uses the Wahabbahi Saudi "honey network" to move their money around. Too bad for women, too bad for democracy, too bad for Sunnis and Shiites. Too bad for European users of oil. And when there is a regieme change, too bad for the region.

Iraq is already in the crapper. The reason that Colin Powell wanted GHW Bush to stop short of deposing Sadaam Hussein was to avoid the power vacuum and dissolution of the country that would result and its effect on the region. Too bad. Because that is exactly what has happened. The Kurds, with considerable oil, have already broken off into a de facto separate country in the north. The Sunnis would have already done the same and joined Syria except for Assad's troubles. The Shiites have used "democracy" to disenfranchise all except the Shiite majority. Besides a majority of Iraq, the only other Shiite country is Iran. Despite the cultural differences, Iraq (or what is left of it) will become very close allies with Iran. Too bad for women, Kurds, Sunnis, European oil consumers, and the USA. This was very predictable and idiots let it happen anyway.

Oman is also worth mentioning. While mouthing the necessary words to keep itself under the US radar, they have forged closer and closer ties with Iran. That doesn't seem like a big deal at first glance, but Oman is a sultanate that depends on outside military to keep its people in line. The British helped in the last revolution in 1962-75. Oman is dependent on Iran to provide the same assistance in the future. They are surprisingly heavily-armed little country with thousands of SCUD missiles for example. But it is also a fundamentalist Islamic country and one that is the only Arab country to ally itself with Iran. Too bad for women, oil, etc. But the most important aspect of Oman for the future is the Straits of Hormuz. If you look at a map, you will see that the Straits are in the territorial waters of Iran (the entry channel) and Oman (the exit channel) and is not internatinal waters. Closing the Straits of Hormuz has different implications for Iran and Oman than for the rest of the Gulf states. Both countries can close the Straits themself and still have free access to the Gulf of Aden since both countries are on both sides of the Straits. If Iran were to shut dowm their side of the Straits (which they can do according to international law) Oman would follow suit. Oman is already making noises that it is unhappy with American and British warships in the Gulf and wants them dramatically reduced. This is one to watch very closely and will probably be a key indicator to Iran's future intentions. Right now it looks a lot like Iran and Oman are seriously considering the closure of the Straits in order to depose Obama (who they despise) and crash Europe's economy with high oil prices. This would be a response to sanctions that would effect them surprisingly little.

Syria is in deep doo-doo and the Russians (specifically Putin) are egging it on. Assad is running a secular predominantly Alawite government much as Sadaam ran a Sunni-dominated government. The "rebels" are mostly fundamentalist Muslims who want an Islamic cleric-led government. The Russians have historically seen Syria as a way of keeping Israel in check in the region and will end up the ally of either side which wins. Unlike Libya where air strikes could be conducted with little resistance, Syria is much better equipped. Eventually Assad will fall and the most likely replacement will be a Iranian-style Sunni cleric-led "democracy." Too bad for women, too bad for youth, too bad for Lebanon (where Syria likes to fight Israel), and too bad for Israel. But arming the rebels will eventually have the same results as it did with the Taliban.

Turkey is another country to watch. Once a secular democratic republic, it is sliding slowly into being a fundamentalist Islamic theocracy. Turkey is no longer "friendly" with Israel and blames the US for allowing the Kurds to have a "homeland" and oil money from which they will attempt to take 1/4 to 1/3 of Turkey to add to "Kurdistan." But as Turkey slides into the fundamentalist Muslim camp, there is a bright side. They are not so much interested in confronting Israel as they are in going after their traditional enemy, Greece. With Greece in serious economic troubles, I am surprised that Cyprus is not already on the map of conflicts. But in Turkey, a largely secular society, is steadily being forced back into the form of an Islamic caliphate. Too bad for women, NATO, Greece, Cyprus, and the Kurds in Iraq.

There is nothing I can say about Lebanon. Once the Paris of the Mediterranian, it is not a non-entity and battlegound. Nothing good can happen in Lebanon except to get caught in the middle again and again.

And last, but not least Iran. Americans donot seem to realize that the Iran Green Party is not pro-West. They are just as fanatically in favor of a cleric-led theocracy as are the current leaders. All they want is a differenc set of ayotollahs and imams running the show. It is why the US has been so reluctanct to support them. There is nothing to be gained. Too bad for women, youth, and the world in general. Americans seem to have fallen into a trap of not realizing that people in Arab countries and Persian Iran are not as smart or educated or capable as Americans. But take a look at how easily they captured a high-tech stealth drone with only minor damafe to the left landing gear. Part of that was arrogance on the part of the CIA, but much more of it was that Iranians posses as much computer skills as Americans. Every famous writer on military strategy has warned not to understimate your enemy. Iran cannot beat the US, but they can make life so miserable for everyone on the planet through manipulation of oil prices. Whie American/UN sanctions can make life bad for ordinary Iranians, it also sets the stage for Iran to conduct their own sanctions --- such as shutting down the Straits of Hormuz or refusing to sell oil to countries which support sanctions. And as far as bombing Iran's nuclear facilities go, that's a joke. The sites are dispersed and hardened. Even "bunker buster" bombs would do little damage that could not be repaired within weeks. This leaves Israel/Iran with only three real options to stop Iran's nuclear ambitions: a) a diplomatic solution (so far not effective) b) a nuclear attack against the nuclear sites that would destroy as much as 40-50% of their capacity, or c) attacks against other targets, such as military sites, refineries, or oil storage and transportation facilities. It's not a pretty picture on the best day. b and c would result in the immediate and nearly permanent shutting down of the Straits, most probably with mines, and then using naval and shore-based anti-ship missiles to prevent its re-opening.

None of this is pretty and none of it can be resolved with military force. And even if it could, our military is worn out from numerous serial deployments and its equipment is badly in need of upgrade, refurbishment or replacement.

And for this country, oil is not really a factor at all despite all the GOP rhetoric. 1) This country is a net exported of oil these days. That means that we already produce more crude oil than we consume. 2) Most of our imported oil comes from Canada, Mexico, and Venezuela. (We get "need" oil from Chavez only because Venezuela owns Citro and its US refineries and filling stations and facilities.) We get more oil from Africa than the Middle East. 3) The only reasons that the cost of Middle Eastern oil concerns us is that the oil companies are playing exactly the same shell game that Enron played with California electricity and unregulated speculators shameless (and illegally) manipulate crude oil prices. They sell american crude (at a production cost of $17-18 a barrel at international prices and then replace it with inferior foreign oil at over five times the price. So instead of $1 per gallon at the gas pump, we end up paying over $4. Even the much-touted Keystone pileline is part of thet shell game, allowing Canada to do the same by selling directly to Gulf Coast refineries and selling the refined products overseas. None of the oil that would be transported would be destined for American gas pumps, but since Americans, and especially Texas, has much laxer environmental regulation, it would allow this country to be stuck with the massive amounts of contaminated sand and chemicals. (Not to mention that Keystone would result in the use of eminent domain to steal millions of acres of land from American farmers.)

And last, but not least is Iran. It's "Ara

Gary, I agree with you about "Arab Spring," but I am compelled to point out that the only difference between the Christianity you see now and Islam as practiced by zealots is time spent being squelched by modern secular society in the West. There is nothing inherently peaceable or tolerant about Christianity - it has just been a very long time since the church and its minions were allowed to arrest, execute, torture, force conversions or otherwise persecute people here.

NMAZ -------------- Read the Koran and the New Testament. You will see the difference in the teachings and lifestyle of Muhammad and Jesus. Muhammad was a solder, a general. He fought in battles and killed human beings; he led his Muslim followers in battle and ordered them to kill and steal. He urged Muslims to be intolerant of any other belief system and to not stop until Islam was the only system allowed on the face of the earth. Jesus, on the other hand , was a peaceful man. He did not kill nor urge his followers to kill. He said to love your enemy and turn the other cheek if attacked. He urged his followers to preach his peaceful message not impose it through force. Those who have sought to follow Christ in the past but have done so imperfectly by engaging in actions which he opposed are not true Christians. Contrary to your contention, there is a deep, profound and obvious distinction between the underpinnings of the two faiths.

Quick question vis a vis your comment on church vs state. How many of these churches outright bar or restrict women in leadership positions? The comment about old white guys is apropos - kind of describes most religious leadership, come to think of it.

Oh, I see. There aren't any women in the church or the government. No wonder there weren't any speaking. Right?

If women don't like being subjugated, they shouldn't worship misogynistic gods. All christian women teach their children to despise women, just as muslim women do.

Until women refuse to tolerate gods that deem them inferior, they will be treated like the fools they are.

I think they secretly like it.

carolanne1~ You don't actually believe that Christians are taught to despise woman do you? Give me a break with you all inclusive statements regarding Christians. Talk like that is trollish in nature. I hope you don't mind that I just made up my own word in trollish (<;

Carolanne is ridiculous. And as for the Catholic church there is a shortage of priest And nuns. People aren't applying for either job. Too many sacrifices I think. And if the church doesn't want to hire certain people so what. It's not like they are high paying or big career jobs. You just want to bitch and say "See...blah, blah, blah."

missrn wrote "Women's rights are moving backward everywhere."

In the US, men's rights are moving backwards.

No, no. I don't mind that you call me names. I expected nothing less. You are brainwashed, probably from birth, just as you are now carrying it forward to your own children.

If you don't believe me, that's okay. Just read the Bible in the privacy of your own room, and highlight every misogynistic story and command. You can start at the beginning, when Eve committed the so-called original sin, and read all the way through the New Testament where Paul tells women to keep their month's shut and worship their husbands.

If you can't see it when it's right there before you in black and white, that's the nature of being brainwashed. I'm sorry for you, but only you can set yourself free of religions that encourage the subjugation of women. Until you do, you can never have real respect for yourself or from others.

THERE you are Vincent. I thought for a moment you'd miss your daily mysogeny moment. Poor baby, having to actually compete with women. Ain't it just awful?

Stephen: look up the real numbers and be enlightened. What's the percentage of women holding elective office in the United States? Apparently, you'd be shocked.

There are women who enjoy their active role as a leader in our society, then there are those who only stand back and whine that they are not treated as an equal, that womens rights are going backward. In my opinion, that is total hogwash. I'm sure, they have run across some male chauvinist that has caused them to believe, all men are that way, or that all men want to treat women that way.

I live in the deep south, considered the "Bible Belt". Here, where southern babtists are the majority, women are seen as subserviant to men, according to their views of the bible. In this way of life, if there are women who marry into this lifestyle are accepting of it, then who are we to condemn them for it. The same is true for women of Islam, who believe in this way of life. And again in the US, where the beliefs of the Mormons are not the norm, but are judged by our society.

My wife reads a lot of literature by Marilyn French. For those not familar of her work she's a feminist novelist. I knew this when I married my wife, that she was very much an independant woman. She will not be looked down upon as being anything less than my equal. This was one of the biggest reasons I fell in love with her, because I knew she was entirely capable of taking care of herself, had her own way of doing things, didn't sit around expecting me to take care of her. In the same way, when I come home, don't expect she has my laundry done or dinner on the table; we share these responsibilities equally. I can cook and clean, as well as rebuild the carb on my car. We are raising two daughters who will also know what its liked to be judged an equal and decide their path in life. We are very much in a union together as one, but with our own "seperate" identity. We don't look to fit into anyones stereotype. For us, we are happy and don't expect anyone else to intervene or try to influence us to change our way of life.

These people who claim to be discriminated against, either by race, religion or color, just want to cause a problem in society, just like those who demand the ability to have prayer in public, at football games etc... Why? My wife and I have no problem praying at our daughters soccer games, together, but in a way that is personal to us. I don't need to try and influence the entire crowd around me, that I AM PRAYING. Nor does my wife feel the need to rip off her bra and burn it at the courthouse.

These freedoms we enjoy (like the one I am expressing now) are alive, well and protected. The only people that want to say they aren't, are the people who are like those wanting to force others to allow them to pray out loud in public, just so they can make a scene and be heard!!!! Those who want to protest for womens rights, when they have a law on the books that say you have those rights, as does a man or women of a different ethnic group who think they do not have equal rights. Its become my opinion that its not equal rights that are being sought, it's the right to become the majority voice just so you can participate in one of the many groups who are looking to be the ones that scream the loudest!!!

Bravo, Carolanne, you tell em girl!

The reason so many christians feel threatened by your words is that many modern christians only worship bits and pieces of the bible. Many pastors don't read the bits that you mentioned. Others sugar coat it with words like "support" and "defer" to men. Ask me how I know? I've been amongst the youth christian groups. Early on in life they get this sugary and happy version of christianity and as they get older, are fed a more and more evangelistic version. Until you get the crazy eyed 30 something wing nuts we see today.

"he loves you he loves you h-he l-l-lovvvvvves youuu soo muchhh PLEASE JOIN US TODAY 0_0"

No. Thanks.

RE: "In this way of life, if there are women who marry into this lifestyle are accepting of it, then who are we to condemn them for it. The same is true for women of Islam, who believe in this way of life. And again in the US, where the beliefs of the Mormons are not the norm, but are judged by our society."

WRONG! Human rights (God given rights if you prefer) are in the words of the US constitution "self evident" and "Inalienable". You do not have the ability to give these up. These rights exist and are real. These rights are more real and more valuable than individual lives, cultures or specific religions and are the very basis of the US Constitution, Bill of Rights, and UN Charters. You may choose to be a slave and act like you don't have those rights, but that does not make it right or acceptable. We must fight those who indoctrinate men and women into believing these rights do not exist or do not apply to them.

Important correction - I clearly meant to say unalienable rights - rights that cannot be surrendered, sold or transferred to someone else - the government, religious group, society, or another person. Some people refer to these as "natural" or "God-given" rights - as opposed to "inalienable" rights. Sorry for the mix up.

Another improtant correction for D Russel "self evident" and "unalienable rights" are found nowhere in the US constitution. They are found in the Declaration of Independence.

You are technically correct, but if you mean to suggest that the Constitution was written without these principles clearly in mind - then you are not correct.

Our Planet, Do you think Sharia stops at the border? It spreads from country to country like a cancer unchecked and it needs voices to stop it. I applaud these woman for their courage and their noble fight and I sincerely hope that Egyptian men would also consider what a loss it will be to their society if the voices of 1/2 their population is no longer heard. How on earth do you find any answer for soaring unemployment if you disqualify half of you work force based merely on their sex? It is economic as well as arguably moral suicide.

It could be worse for women in Egypt. They could be encouraged to do hard manual labor outdoors and take an equal share in the workplace injuries and deaths, which are currently monopolized by men.

Excellently expressed, and oh so true. I have often thought the same thing.

Well said, and I agree. I often wonder what's behind some of the conservative Christian politicians who spew "family values" which are really strategies to degrade and control women, in disguise. True family values means mutual respect. I suspect many of these men are struggling with their own insecurities, so why not find a way to suppress women to elevate their own standings?

I am 54 years old and have gone to Catholic Church most of my life. What the heck are you guys talking about? I have NEVER heard anyone in church say anything against women. In fact most the lectures are said by women as they are greatly involed in the care of the church and the community.

Yes, priests are male all the way up to the Pope, BUT WE THE PEOPLE are the church. Some priests may have thought that they could do whatever they wanted but that very small self centered group is GONE or headed to jail. Say that of the religion of "submit".

MOS - women can't be priests. Priest can't marry. Birth control is a sin. Abortion is a sin. If a birth mother's life is in jeopardy, she dies and the fetus lives. Sex is for procreation only. Nuns and priests have a lot of closeted whackadoos in their ranks living in cloisters, seminaries, with no sex or companionship (yeah right). It reeks of sexual frustration and obession.

Mike, priests And nuns can't marry. You're making something of one and not the other. It is to serve the lord totally without all the distractions. (Some people believe it's so the church doesn't have to support a whole family.) I think it has to take a strong person to do that. I could not. Maybe that's why there is a shortage today. Also tho, I believe monks can't marry and have all sorts of restrictions. I believe that includes buddist monks. Their anti abortion stance is not anti-women, but worrying about the life of the fetus, which they believe (and is) alive. I think the Chinese consider a person's birthday to be from the time of conception.

Unbeliev - You are not seeing the forest for the trees. You made my point. The Catholic Church deemed that it's members cannot marry eons after the time of Christ. Christ never made that decree. You can belive the dedication-to-God thing all you want. I'm buying the "I-like-men-and-not-women-so-I'll-sequester-myself -with -similar- outcasts-from-society-and-make-it acceptable" angle myself. Then the women similarly got in to by cloistering themselves and their hangups and peculiarities away together as nuns in the name of piousness. It's warped, I don't care what century you were living in. To deny yourself human sex and love is untterly unnatural and unecessary, but for those who feared partaking in the wrong kind of love. Since men were in power, all the better to demonize the female hussies and put them in their place so that it looks normal, just, and ethical to be repulsed by women.

The problem with equality for all is that that means... you have to treat people you think are inferior to you as equals! Thus the antiquated role of women as inferior to men combines with the ultra-conservative mindset that says 'this is how it was, this is how it always should be', plus ancient religious texts and fundamentalists, and you get people incapable of enduring change, and intolerant of increased rights for others. Pretty sad so many small-minded people have the opportunity to control so many others. I hope America wakes up before we go any further that way ourselves. It's painful enough to watch in largely backward cultures like these, how much more painful to see it here?

Don't be muslim in the US, they are heavily discriminated against, as are latinos. Just look at all the emphasis on illegal aliens in the US, and how the congress is working so hard to discriminate against them. The US has always been a bigoted country, just ask the Irish that came over here 100 years ago. Just now the Irish and black are considered more acceptaable, at least compared to Muslims, latinos, Jews.

If I as an employer have to complete an I-9 verification form and my employee has to provide a Social Security number for tax purposes then my employee would have to be a legal citizen or resident alien. If the are illegal aliens then I am not lawfully allowed to employee them because they have no valid social security number.....how does that make me a racist???????

I can not hire a person to drive my trucks if they dont have a commercial drivers license...is that racist too??

AZRancher: how did this become all about YOU and YOUR reasons for not hiring women? You need ANOTHER excuse because of the color of their skin?

Just now the Irish and black are considered more acceptaable, at least compared to Muslims, latinos, Jews.

Jews? Jews are worshipped here. You can't say anything against Jews.

Kula, the last time I looked Hawaii was part of the USA.

And here, Clifford, I thought this was a story about women in Egypt. Silly me.

agree! Thomas Jefferson once made a statement to the effect that the more religious denominations there are the safer is democracy. I think he was correct. In Islam unfortunately, the role of women is very well defined in the Koran and as the radicals take over one country after another, professional women will cease to exist.

So when do you smell when bibles are burned?

They've already been burned

I believe the reason we are staying out of the Syrian uprising is that we learned our lesson in Egypt. These extreme Islamists are crafty and they are pulling these shenanigans to usurp the current regimes and eventually install their own secular form of government.

This is exactly what happened in Egypt and while the youth did begin the movement, the old school brotherhood and the vultures prayed upon the absence of an iron fisted rule and we now are seeing through their BS

Mubarek kept the radicals on a short-leash. He had his issues to be sure, but at least he maintained a semblance of peace with Israel and did move forward with bestowing basic rights to non-islasmic males. This cannot be said with the folks in charge now, as they are trying to roll back the few progressive changes that even occurred in Egyptian society. It's an outrage and was also perfectly predictable. You don't throw your ally of 30 years under the bus because you naively believe the platitudes of the "reformers."

Really? - it's because many liberals are naive on this issue. They think that their perspective, informed from the comfort, wealth, and progressiveness of San Francisco for example (which is a good model for social issues in general I think), are equally applicable to Egyptian society. It's classic "inferential" bias, whereby someone generalizes inappropriately. And yes, conservatives are guilty of this for other issues to be sure.

I am a Christian, I'm perfectly happy for Christians to have all the rights we give to anyone else. But they don't get extra-special rights like the right to use their religious beliefs to attempt to control the lives of others who don't share them. Which is exactly how I feel about Muslims and Jews. If you think Christians should be able to control decisions of non-Christians, in what way is that different from what the extremist Muslims like the Taliban try to do? Oh right, they're worshiping the wrong form of God.

Huh, maybe it's not us liberals who are so hypocritical after all?

Keep reading egyptindependent.com. You'll get the last news of a society that wanted to be free of fear to be really in fear. Why didn't Pres.Obama support secular people instead of the Muslim Brotherhood (Washington Post's David Ignatius had an aticle about Pres.Obama in Cairo and how he was TALKING to the Muslim Brotherhood in particular. Egypt's Salafists (Noirs) are even more mideval than MB. Why did US/Obama adm. wilfully condemn 40 mill. women into bondage and 8 mill Christian Copts to an unknown fate? Nobody is asking any pertinent questions- the whole Maghreb women are being denied their fundamental Human Rights. It all depends which way the whole Maghreb will go in the next elections if there are any. The wahhabist /salafists in their fundamental worldview have already lost tourism- exports- they are in the economic hole needing immediate 11 billion to stay above water. Hopefully the Pyramids,sphinxes, real culture (books,paintings,artifacts,Tut et al) will not be destroyed nor the Suez Canal closed. Egyptians and other Maghreb people deserved better- a future that Obama adm.denied then.

lol, yeah, obama could have kept mubarek in power. Not. Mubarek was history unless you think we should have invaded egypt like iraq?

And can you prove that anyone (including obama) thought that "democracy was going to work in egypt". I'm pretty sure everyone knew the risks when you let people choose their own leaders, but what should obama have done? started that THIRD middle east invasion/nation building? I think not.

Obama has proven himself to understand plenty about the world, I love how you people just assume he was stupid on this issue. what exactly would YOU have done in egypt that would have changed things? I'm listening. :)

I find it fascinating how many people whine how obama is a powerless fool that is the laughingstock of the world, yet now, somehow, a few magic words and mubarek would magically have resisted tens of millions of people with his help. lol.

That's a complete intellectual copout and a false dichotomy: Obama had choices different from "do nothing" and "keeping Mubarek in power through invasion". Although the die was cast, there is a widespread perception that Obama "abandoned" Mubarek, especially rhetorically. There are lots of reports on this - google them.

"People choose their own leaders" - well that's exactly what we're getting now isn't it? I suppose if we take away 40 million women's voices, then that's still the people.

Obama is naive, and I'm going to vote against his re-election in the fall that's for sure. I would certainly have not abandoned Mubarek early on as Obama did. Obama is a laughingstock in many countries. He's not a bad guy and is fairly smart I think, but he's naive by thinking the non-Western world hews to reason.

Where do you get your info, that Obama is a laughing stock in many countries? That was CERTAINLY the case with "W". I've traveled to many countries with my job, and overwhelmingly I hear what an idiot Bush was, and finally we have an intelligent, admirable leader.

So you're going to vote AGAINST Obama no matter who it is? Santorum or Gingrich haven't a clue, both are scary. Romney only sees $$$. The choices are pretty pathetic, it will be interesting to see who ends up as the GOP nominee.

BTW, I'm a registered independent, and I can't begin to see any of the GOP candidates up against Obama. Obama isn't perfect, but his hands are tied with the uncooperative Congress. That's not his fault.

libertarian: well, then, what SHOULD obama have done? lol, I see you offer up..nothing.

again, maybe the "perception" is that obama "abandoned" mubarek...but that doesn't mean he CAUSED the current situation, now does it?

Your failure to answer my simple question is the intellectual copout. If someone wants to blame obama for egypt, they have to say EXACTLY what he should have done DIFFERENTLY, not just whine about it.

PS - which countries, EXACTLY, is obama a laughinstock? I'm looking for facts here...and if you don't provide them, that's ANOTHER intellectual copout. :)

Obama has his hands full trying to run the US. He's not responsible for Egypt. If Egyptians don't want to live in caves they shouldn't elect Neanderthals.

No, just social security. With babies it's health care and education they want to take away. At least health care after they're born--obviously prenatal babies must be treated as helpless people we must protect at all costs. But once they're out of the womb, they're on their own!

Obama was the one that supported the current governments in Egypt, Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan. Of course some know how bad a president he really is, he unfortunately has charisma. I don't like him but too many others are blinded by his rhetoric.

You know it's true. At least true that the GOP would try like hell. You just think it's funny because you happen to agree with it as long as it's your beliefs being imposed.

won't matter. It's not like you will still be able to vote.

Healthcare rights???? Here in America today you can obtain any healthcare package OR provider you choose. I can open a phone book or use the internet to select any number of health insurers and subscribe to the health plan of my choice.

The main question is not healthcare rights, its who can I get to pay for it because I want it but dont want to pay the bill for it.

Patty wrote "Hey, if the GOP wins the white house, this will be American women marching down the streets...not for equal job rights, but for equal healthcare rights."

That would draw attention to the reality that men pay the same health insurance rates while consuming fewer services. That would draw attention to women living an average of five years longer than men. If the situations were reversed, women indeed would be marching down the streets.

But in case you didn't notice, Obama, a Democrat, followed two terms of George W. Bush, a Republican.

Healthcare rights???? Here in America today you can obtain any healthcare package OR provider you choose. I can open a phone book or use the internet to select any number of health insurers and subscribe to the health plan of my choice.

That's only true if you're rich or healthy.

I have a pre-existing condition and the only insurance I can get costs over $1500 per month with a $10k deductible. Meaning that unless I'm hospitalized, the insurance will never pay for anything and I'm just throwing away $18k per year for nothing.

I don't mind paying IF the fees are rational, but this is insane.

carolanne1; My family is in the same boat as you are. We are using up our COBRA coverage (which costs twice what our monthly mortgage used to cost). My husband and I are in our 50's and our youngest daughter has had cancer. No insurance company that we have applied to (even with the magic $10,000 deductible) will accept us.

There are lots of us in this sinking boat.

Azrancher, have you ever seen the bill for individual health care?

It's monstrous! Then try to add a family of four to it.

Your delusional if you believe the average American can afford health care on their own.

As I recall, for the last almost 40 years, many tens of thousands of women have been marching down the streets of Washington, D. C. on a regular basis to protest the slaughter of the innocent. Yes! There have been some men with them, but the overwhelming majority are/have been women.

Before anyone complains about my inciting violence, the above comment was not meant to be taken literally. However, I am very tired of hearing about women having acid thrown in their faces, and wish they would have the ability to defend themselves.

Amen Sister, I understand your implication. American women have a history of being strong. Dont act like the victim and you wont get treated like a victim. Good call.

This is the future of the women of the United States. Don't think so, read states rights being taken away from women.

If you think the "little" woman won't be back at home all the time, keep letting them take our rights away. I can't imagine how the men will feel when they alone are bringing home the bacon to a dozen of so kids.

BBonnet, I'm with you all the way. And, Azrancher, right now the American women are becoming the victim because we are not fighting back where it counts. Ya, we knocked Susan Komen Corp down a peg or two, ya, we knocked Rush on his ass for awhile, but where are we at the state houses and in Washington D.C. The laws are being passed because we are just sitting back and letting it happen.

Time to change Sisters, time to change.

Actually, to be precise, they want to move women back 1,390 years, back to the days when Mohammed's youngest wife, Aisha (the 9 year old bride of the Prophet, peace be upon him), asked him to restrain his followers because "None suffer so much as the believing women". Mohammed responded to her complaint by chastising her for her presumption.

oldefarte --

ROFL

What a crock. Put down Prophet of Doom and go back to your children's book.

carolanne1. nothing wrong with what oldefarte said. However, you had better open your eyes, little girl, you better open your eyes.

A pedophile like that (9 years old!!!!) should have been stoned to death, even back then. What a pathetic religion to believe someone like that should be revered. Sure he wasn't a Catholic Priest?

this is what obama wanted? really? got proof? not mindless fox news talking points? lol.

i feel good about it, we're allies with the world not wild ass cowboys rushing off to invade countries on a whim.

Yea, we dont need to use our military to attack a non threatening soveriegn government like libya just because we can, let them resolve thier own internal problems.......when will odumbo get this??

Take Newt Gingrich. Two weeks ago, the former House speaker and possible presidential candidate denounced Obama for not intervening forcefully against Kadafi.

"This is a moment to get rid of [Kadafi]," he urged. "Do it. Get it over with.

"I support military action in Libya," said former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney

I guess its "mittdumbo" and "newdumbo" too? :)

Really....Really? This movement is not about one women standing up for her/our rights for health care. The whole mess regarding women's rights have gotten out of hand at the Federal level, and at the State level.

And, Really, a lot of men are beating women up every day, are you one of them? You sound like it.

70% of college degrees in Iran are awarded to women. Is that discrimination against men?

rural wash,,I have to agree with you, as long as the smart ones leave their bigoted men back in the middle east . I recently did some work for a family of Lebanese descent, these were people that are 2nd and 3rd generation immigrants , I had a hard time just working with them , the women were not even allowed to communicate with me, if I had questions or concerns Ihad to wait until one of the men got home to ask them. From what my 2 boys tell me [ they both served in the middle east] it is much worse over there.. Then again that is your extreme Muslim religions for you.