Greece is a great example of what the article points to as "borrowing more money in an attempt to bribe people into being happy."

The U.S. is not far behind; then, again, except for our government's ability to print money, maybe we're already past them. The article listed the taxes, etc., imposed to try to deal with the deficits. See any similarities, e.g., the 1% tax on banking transactions proposal? How about the proposed additional federal taxes on gasoline? Or the proposed taxes on businesses? Or the proposed taxes on "the wealthy?'

Greece is simply a small example of what happens when a government decides that the government should be able to take money from whomever to support the development of or expansion of programs essentially to buy votes from other people or groups. Unfortunately, many Americans seem to believe that as long as their particular group are beneficiaries of the government's "largesse," it's a good thing.

Greece is learning what Margaret Thatcher said: "The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money."

Greece did what America is doing. The politicians made promises to the people to get elected, free health care, pensions, creating more and more government jobs so you can tell the people you're a job creator. The problem is they have no way to pay for what they have promised and now the people are finding out they were lied to. Don't be stupid, when your leaders tell you they can get you free health care, free education, social security retirement, ect.. they forget to tell you they don't have the money for all these programs and are borrowing billions and trillions to try and make that promise come true. Some day they will not be able to borrow any more and all these promises will be gone and you idiots who vote for these fools who continually have Trillion dollar budget deficits will be to blame.

Greece is a great example of a failed SOCIALIST state.

Don't be stupid, when your leaders tell you they can get you free health care, free education, social security retirement, ect.. they forget to tell you they don't have the money for all these programs and are borrowing billions and trillions to try and make that promise come true.

Well said.

Greece is an example of why people should be self-sufficient and why the government should stay out of people's lives as much as possible! Government wrecks everything it touches with their lies and false promises.

Greece is pure proof Ayn Rand was very correct.

Work for it or perish... the social free ride is a myth and never works.. Cuba anyone?

getalifevirginia...

Very true but who would you say is best suited to begin getting U.S. out of this mess? Certainly not the democrats...and recent history has proven, certainly not the republicans either. This country needs a legitimate 3rd party but the dems nor repubs will have any of that!

Welcome to the USA in 2020 unless we elect people willing to make the hard unpopular cuts to balance the budget.

Increasing revenues is simply taking money out of the economy to fund more unsustainable programs until after the election.

Power and Greed is destroying us all. This is our future if we do not begin to fight back. Government is corrupt at all levels all over the world and we sit and take it. I alraedy have enough of my income stolen by our government to do whatever they please with it. Insurance cost has quadruple, cost of living is up, gas is up however, the only thing that is not going up is my salary.

Both parties are to blame. Tired of the political ping pong game. Our constitution has been totally ignored by our government.

Common Man-3493893

Greece is a great example where people in the government live high on the hog and everyone else suffers.

Also of note. The Greeks simply refuse to pay the taxes. with no repercussions.

cantakenomore,

Hey, maybe a third party, but then one would be faced with voting for a third turd!

What this country needs is a legitimate educated articulate truth-telling honest person to work for the best interests of the people and the country. Maybe not even just one, but 435 congressional members and 9 justices also.

Did you ever try to get an appointment to discuss matters with your congressperson. I'd bet it would have been easier finding a 50-yard line Super Bowl ticket lying in the street!! Now, I'd bet, if you had a substantial amount of money (used to be called PAYOLA) and possibly some insider trading information to offer the congressperson in return for an appointment and some favors, you'd have on pretty quick. Stop the lobbying game and this country will start to get back on track. Continue the special interest bull$hit and we will continue down the road toward Greece.

First impressions may indeed make people think that's where we're heading because of welfare programs and overspending, but read this article and you'll quickly realize we're also heading there because of lack of tax revenue similar to Greece (about halfway through the article it addresses taxation or rather lack thereof on millionaires):

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2007949/The-Big-Fat-Greek-Gravy-Train-A-special-investigation-EU-funded-culture-greed-tax-evasion-scandalous-waste.html

The big lie in America now is that if we taxed the rich more we wouldn't have these budgets problems. The truth is even if we taxed the top 1% of Americans at 100% of their income we would still be running huge deficits. Roll back the Bush Tax Cuts and we still have huge deficits. We have many programs that are unfunded and getting worse every year, people on those programs get mad when cuts are talked about but lets see how happy they are when the program they are on goes bankrupt and they get nothing. The longer we wait and choose not to take the debt seriously the worse it will be when we have to solve the problems. Your kids will be paying billions in taxes just to make interest payments on Americas debt. Shameful!

YES notice the same thing in the usa, its starting to rear its ugly head in our leaders to.

Successive Greek governments borrowed an estimated $498 billion, in essence to bribe the Greek people into being happy. (Politicians) who could offer cushy office jobs, fat pensions and long vacations got re-elected. It made perfect political sense, but it was economic suicide. "They borrowed," he said. "Every time they needed money they borrowed and then borrowed some more."

Wall Street taught them how to do that. Aren't we clever?

I wish Obama would go there and see for himself what borrowing does to a country that tries to take care of

"Everyone ".

Further proof that free market capitalism does not work (except if your in the 1%)

Free market Capitalism has nothing to do with Greece. They are about as close to free maket capitalist as Cuba. Your post is silly.

Eventually .... everyone has to understand .... "There is no such thing as a "Free Ride" ... someone pays for everything!

Maybe the people of Greece should have thought of this before they started advocating and practicing retirement at 50 and the practice of cheating on taxes.

I have not one bit of sympathy for this country or its people.

Live within your means, or accept what eventually will happen.

The rich will stay rich and the rest of the populace will be driven into the ground. The entire global economic structure needs changing. I think credit was the first bad proposal implemented and I'm talking about credit cards. It created the "illusion of wealth". That is a huge problem....personal debt. In some cases people have no chance of ever paying off their credit card debts with the huge interest payments tacked on. Borrow, borrow, borrow and eventually the bill has to be paid but won't be. Greece is a vision of what the rest of the world could eventually face. Greece effectively is now a third world country with no hopeful prospects on the horizon.

Roy Wilson, most of that deficit spending you're attributing to Obama came out of the 2009 fiscal year, and the 2009 fiscal year budget was set by the Bush Administration (and had everything to do with the collapsing economy in '08). Since '09, the FY budgets have been decreasing, and they would be decreasing drastically were it not for the economy and the Bush tax cuts.

the Ultimate Survivor doesn't need money, or turn to Crime..it All depends on; Condition, mental/ physical & the ability out wit any anomalies encountered...it All depends on what your Condition, your Condition is In...

If the Bush Tax Cuts had never gone through, and we kept Revenue the same as under Clinton, we would have a sustainable DEBT AND DEFICIT. Even REPUBLICANS couldn't agree to more than $100 Billion in cuts - and even those cuts were insane (like getting rid of our national insurance policy against another Flu Epidemic! Yes! Republicans voted to eliminate the significant annual spending that made it even possible (via the infrastructure) to keep the Swine Flu from becoming an epidemic!). This FACT that when even Republicans couldn't come up with more "waste", we need to raise revenue.

Check out this chart:

@LogicRequired. I agree with all of your statements with the exception of one. The government is not supplying free Social Security Retirment. Nor are they borrowing money to fund it. We the working people of America have paid our hard earned dollars into this retirement fund all of our working days. For me (and a lot of others as well) I have been paying into Social Security for 50 years. This money has been paid in good faith, with the promise that when I am too old to work productively, I would have a little something set aside to keep me from being homeless and becoming a burden on sociaty. A lot of us Baby Boomers (that all of a sudden is a bad thing in this country) have our own insurance, have supported this country in more ways than you can count and I believe that we of the American working class deserve this "newly called" entitlement. To me and others the problem isn't the program, but as in Greece, it is how the progams are administered and it is the adminastration in charge who has brought us to this crossroad, and unfortuently it looks like the adminastration is lost and does not know which way to turn here and if we the American people are not careful we could choose to follow someone in the wrong direction and end up in Greece.

Our debt is much worse than Greece's debt .... Thanks Obama ....

Roy Wilson, most of that deficit spending you're attributing to Obama came out of the 2009 fiscal year, and the 2009 fiscal year budget was set by the Bush Administration (and had everything to do with the collapsing economy in '08). Since '09, the FY budgets have been decreasing, and they would be decreasing drastically were it not for the economy and the Bush tax cuts.

Rick, Democrats controlled the House and Senate during Bush's last two years in office and were incharge of passing a budget that Bush signed. Democrats in the House and Senate decided the Budget, not Bush. Democrats and Obama take no responsiblity for what has happened since they have been incharge, going all the way back to 2006.

There are quite a few socialist states which are economically far better off than US, let alone Greece. Take Norway, Sweden, and Belgium for example - all socialist countries. The problem is clearly not the system, but the laziness, stupidity, and corruption of the people within the system. Greece has surrendered to international banksters and the current crisis is far from over. Eventually the international capital holders and bankers will siphon out huge amounts of wealth from Greece for pennies on the dollar. Same thing happened in Germany in 1920's.

Our debt is heading towards 16 trillion ....

Greece's debt is only , almost 533 billion ....

Who should be getting sick over debt ....

Blackbird, you are absolutely right! The credit card is probably the worst economic measure ever adopted by any country! It's illusion is the form of plastic, eye candy to catch the unwary and drive them deep into debt.. You end up paying and paying and paying, it's a never ending vicious cycle and sadly it's usually aimed at the very youngest of people.. Those just starting out, still in college and thinking they will have plenty of time to pay off the increasing debt plus interest as soon as they get a high-paying job!

Banks and lending institutions love them, of course, especially since the Feds have given them virtual carte-blanche to charge the highest possible interest rate on them!

These insidious little pieces of plastic have probably done more for devastating the economics of the world in general then anything else.. But the filthy rich bankers and CEOs will continue to push these things like the Cartels push their drugs and we, stupid people that we are, will continue to think of them as a way out, with stars in our eyes!

@LogicRequired, you're blaming the Democrats for Bush signing the budget deal? You're blaming the Democrats for Bush not exercising his veto power? Take a cue from your screen name. If Bush had wanted to veto the budget he could have, but the fact is all those financial bailouts that are being assigned to Obama, Bush was behind and fully supporting. So was John McCain, and for that matter, Sarah Palin. Remember how McCain dramatically stopped his campaign during all that? Regardless of whether Bush, McCain or Obama were president, those bailouts would have happened. And they happened because of the collapse of the economy in '07 and '08.

Notice how the Greek government essentially bribed the voters into voting for them by holding out early retirement, high salaries for little work, etc. What they did was borrow money which they could not repay to insure that the politicans were re-elected. The parallels between what Greece did and what Obama and the democrats who love socialism are doing is scary. The Greeks are bancrupt, deeply in debt to the moneylenders, the interest on the debt has crippled the nation and people are now hungry and homeless.

The Obama supporters had better take a good hard look at Greece. All that Obama proposes and stands for will definitely turn the US into Greece in a very short time. We are on that sad road already. Taxing the rich? Uh huh. Sounds great except that the total wealth of the 'wealthy' (those making over $250,000.00) if confiscated by the government wouldn't begin to touch the national debt.

No one wants to address the issues, no one has the courage to tell the truth. Those who stand up and tell the truth are villified, called racists and other names, and the bancrupting of America continues. Sorry, liberal progressivism doesn't work except as a vote buying agenda.

Rick: In a congress composed of a vast majority of democrats, why wasn't a balanced budget passed three years ago? Can't say it was the republicans who stymied that budget, Pelosi tabled it because she knew it was an unpopular vote loser. It would seem you are confusing the bailouts with the budget. Two different animals.

If you look at the bailouts and the events leading up to the financial collapse perhaps you should turn your attention to the Clinton administration. There is an excellent book All the Devils Are Here, and Frontline on PBS has some excellent documentaries as well. Then look into a woman named Brooksly Born and a man named Allen Greenspan. Then examine Paul Volker and look closely at the Federal Reserve. Oversimplification of a series of events may satisfy a need for revenge, but it fails to address the true causes of the collapse, thereby allowing the malfeasance to continue.

LogicReguired

The big lie in America now is that if we taxed the rich more we wouldn't have these budgets problems. The truth is even if we taxed the top 1% of Americans at 100% of their income we would still be running huge deficits

Very true, but that little tax detail in Greece should show us that both revenue increases AND expenditure cuts are necessary. Simply cutting only expenses will never provide reduce it enough to support a growing number of people who earn so little they owe no taxes. Likewise, taxing those earning 7 figures exorbitantly will never generate enough either. A little common sense from both stances is needed.

"You think too much--that is your trouble. Clever people and grocers--they weigh everything."

from the film Zorba the Greek

ya because republicans don't do that.....right. You guys sound so stupid when you say Obama Obama Obama. It's both sides and one HUGE reason we're in the pickel we are is we lowered taxes when starting two wars....I mean, find one time in the history of the world where a country did that. Yes, I want to ramp up spending to a billion a month to fight a war, but I'm going to cut my hours in 1/2....pretty smart.

mygirl1, nice attempt to change the subject. What we're discussing is the '09 budget and how Republicans keep trying to pin it on Obama when it was actually Bush's budget. In reading these comments, I'm finding it rather amusing that folks here are blaming the president in power for bad fiscal year budgets, unless the president at the time happened to be a Republican, then all of a sudden the budget is the fault of the Democratic Congress.

"What makes Leo unhappy is the realization that the government is to blame. "They borrowed," he said. "Every time they needed money they borrowed and then borrowed some more."...Successive Greek governments borrowed an estimated $498 billion, in essence to bribe the Greek people into being happy. Governments who could offer cushy office jobs, fat pensions and long vacations got re-elected. It made perfect political sense, but it was economic suicide."

Are you listening, Obama? Obama's 2012 Budget projections show that he will increase our National Debt by over $10.8 Trillion by 2016 if he gets reelected "in essence to bribe the American people into being happy". That's more than 21 times as much as Greece has borrowed in their history. Greece is an example of what America looks like if Obama gets reelected. Our children will pay the price.

Rick-in-SD "Roy Wilson, most of that deficit spending you're attributing to Obama came out of the 2009 fiscal year, and the 2009 fiscal year budget was set by the Bush Administration"

Wrong.

For those who like to claim that Bush was responsible for the huge increase in spending for 2009, consider this;

'On September 30, 2008, President George W. Bush signed a continuing resolution (H.R. 2638) that would fund at current 2008 levels the budgets of various federal agencies until March 6, 2009.'

In other words, Bush only approved spending at the same level as in 2008. This was because the Democratic Congress refused to consider Bush's proposed Budget for 2009, or pass a Budget of their own. Once Obama took office in January, 2009, Obama quickly passed the $860 Billion 'Stimulus' bill and the $400 Billion 'Porkulus' bill (despite his 'No Pork' pledge). On March 11, 2009, Obama signed the actual Budget for 2009. The result was a huge increase in spending and Deficit for 2009.

The spending level for 2008 (Bush) was $2.983 Trillion.

The actual spending for 2009 (Obama) was $3.518 Trillion, an increase of $535 Billion (18%) - All by Obama.

Source http://hr.cch.com/news/hrm/101508a.asp

Gee, those 'Inconvenient Truths' certainly do get in the way of a perfectly good 'spin', don't they?

When are we going to face the hard facts. Most of our politicians, especially those that have been in power most of their lives only make decisions based soley on being re-elected or to increase their private wealth. This will lead us down the same path as Greece. Our leaders spend billions on huge social programs to keep a voting bloc happy or create large goverment entities to employee people to artificially lower he unemployment rate. Both of these strategies are paid for by borrowing from the Chinese and others. Our leaders tell us want we want to hear, never agree on anything substantial, and cannot make any tough choices. They play the polling ratings game and hide behind accusing the "other" party for all the faults of this country. We as voters need to take back our country one person at a time, one small step at a time. VOTE out every incumbent! Serve notice to all of our leaders hat if they can't make tough choices and tell us the straight truth then they will be kicked out of Washington and our state capitals! We as Americans must take back our country with our votes and sacrificies. It may be daunting and ugly for awhile but this ship can be turned around if we are willing to sacrifice. The alternative will be just like Greece only much uglier and if it comes to that we will not have a choice or vote and the sacrifices will be far more painful.

There you go again, Roy, completely leaving out the bailouts Bush was behind, but then sticking them on Obama. Do you not understand that those bailout packages had already passed by Bush's desk, and were working their way through Congress, before Obama took office? Bush was backing them. If he had been in office through 2009 THEY STILL WOULD HAVE HAPPENED. As for the stimulus package, that is tiny in comparison to the financial bailouts. And 40% of the stimulus was further tax cuts meant to appease the Republicans. If you will go back in time, you will recall that the argument was not about stimulus or no stimulus. Everybody, Democrats and Republicans alike, were pushing for a stimulus, they just couldn't agree on what kind. The Democrats wanted a stimulus spending bill; the Republicans wanted a bill with just tax cuts. What resulted was Obama's attempt to compromise. But because Republicans didn't get every single thing they wanted (i.e., tax cuts only), and of course because his name was on it, not a single one of them signed off on it. They did, however, back the financial bailouts, which of course both McCain and Bush had been pushing. And again, the bailouts + the Bush tax cuts + two unpaid for wars + the economic collapse = skyrocketing debt.

And by the way, Roy, Continuing Resolutions are not budgets. LOL! They are merely stop gap measures to keep the government running at current spending levels until a budget agreement is reached. Bush's 2009 budget proposal looked NOTHING like the 2008 budget reflected in the Continuing Resolution.

Note that Obama and McCain both went to Washington to support the bailouts. Now, what led to the economic collapse? Again, I direct your attention to the Clinton administration. Bush got the housing bubble collapse on his watch but it started under Clinton and even earlier, under Carter. Now, if you want to place blame, lay the blame equally on both parties since both parties were and are, complicit in what has and is, currently happening in this country. Perhaps the real focus should be on the similarity of the Greek politicans buying votes and how American politicans also buy votes. Pie-in-the-sky promises get votes, unfortunately, that celestial pie has to be paid for.

Rick-in-SD "There you go again, Roy, completely leaving out the bailouts Bush was behind, but then sticking them on Obama. Do you not understand that those bailout packages had already passed by Bush's desk, and were working their way through Congress, before Obama took office? Bush was backing them."

Nice try at a 'spin', but the 'bailouts' (about $375 Billion of TARP was actually used) WERE authorized under Bush, but they have virtually all been repaid - with some interest, so that is essentially a net wash. The overall effect on borrowing has been miniscule.

'Continuing Resolutions' certainly ARE Budgets - they are just short term Budgets, not the normal 1 year Budget that Congress is supposed to pass. By the way - Why have the Democrats in Congress not passed the normally required annual Budget for over 1200 days now? You need to ask Harry Reid on that - talk about shirking his responsibilities. I guess 'Good ole Harry' would rather ignore his constitutional duties than have to explain why he can't control spending.

The picture with the old woman appears to show some very very nerdy math graffiti. The only one I don't get is the square root of i^4...isn't the "opposite" of the square root of 1 the square root of i^2 or -1? i^4 = 1.

@ Roy: How much did the two wars, that Bush kept off the books, increase the deficit...when Obama put them on the books so everyone could see how much we were spending? Any numbers on that one?

Not really going to argue either side, both Democrats and Republicans are pretty much worthless when they reach the Senate. Their principles disintegrate and amount to getting more power and wealth, and maintaining their hold on that power and wealth. That's about it.

Several years ago, I was watching a program about coffee around the world. So this program was visiting countries and thus focusing on coffee houses. Of all the places featured in the program, it was Greece that caught my eye. I wanted to live there. They just sat around all day playing board games and slowly sipping very thick coffee. I kept wondering if they worked? I also kept thinking how nice it would be to sit outdoors in big plazas and contemplate life.

Is anybody still playing boardgames?

Look, everybody screwed up including those now suffering. Everybody bought into the "free" propaganda. There is no doubt the US is doing exactly the same thing.

Recently a very hard working private contractor took his elderly mother in to get some utility relief. He expected to find many more like her in need of some help. He didn't find the elderly at the government office, but instead found a room full of young people, some with children. There are jobs out there, but many would rather sponge off the government and wait out the cycle "contemplating life" like the Greeks have been doing. I know college graduates refusing to work more than part-time and now receiving utility subsidies because their paycheck stub demonstrates they need financial assistance. They could work. They have been offered, but want instead to sleep late, drink all night, and walk the dog.

Just remember it was the Tea Party that wanted to stop the borrowing, but Obama chided them as did most of the country believing that raising the debt limit was the right thing to do. So when is raising the debt limit not a good idea? Was there ever a time when Greece should have stopped borrowing? Do you think their population would have been supportive of curtailing that borrowing? So was anybody going to be a grown-up? Is Washington being a grown-up now, or just running up the debt to buy votes?

Hold up people

The real geniuses behind the financial collapse was the US financial services industry (no prosecutions yet). They released mortgage backed securities, which collapsed, and took down the economy. Banks were pushing mortgages like never before, reducing interest rates, etc, etc. All in an attempt to get people to buy houses and thus issue more mortgage backed securities. Greek banks bought securities heavily and had to be bailed out by their government and ...

The US dollar is still the world's reserve currency, so the chances of that happening here are essentially non-existant. How-ever, it would behove us get our house in order so that the US may continue to exist.

In reality, the middle class has shrunk to 51% (from a high of about 70% in 68). Credit was used for a while to maintain the veneer of the middle class. How-ever, this was not sustainable. In order to get things back on track, we have to rebuild the middle class, something all the politicos talk of, but none seem to have any idea of what to do.

In essence, the gross economic pool has to be increased tremendously, in order to yield enough in taxation to address the issue. This is simply not do-able. Also, slashing social care benefits are not the answer - we will just add more to the home-less count. Increasing taxes on the wealthy, stock trade surcharges, elimination of pork and fraud are quick hits that will provide tangible results. How-ever the question still remains - can we trust our politicos (red, blue, purple, what-ever) with our money?

B Murphy "@ Roy: How much did the two wars, that Bush kept off the books, increase the deficit"

Gee, that sound like a good question, but unfortunately, its premise is wrong. When you say 'off the books' and 'on the books', it implies that they weren't budgeted under Bush but WERE budgeted under Obama.

Bush never spent one cent that wasn't budgeted by Congress. Most of the costs for the wars were included in the original budgets for each year, but if more money was needed, an 'Additional Appropriations' bill had to be passed by Congress (controlled by Democrats in Bush's last 2 years), thus increasing the budget for that year. That has happened under every President for the last 50 years.

In any event, all money actually SPENT (including war costs) in any fiscal year IS included in the final spending for each year, and so all of the war costs are accounted for in the final reported spending for each year.

PS - As for Obama putting the war costs 'on the books', that would require that they be included in the Budget for each year - but since Harry Reid has not passed a Federal Budget in over 3 years, it's silly to say they are 'on the books'.

The Constitution says that a Federal Budget is to be passed by Congress each year, but Harry Reid somehow never gets around to doing it for over 3 years - primarily because he would have to actually tell America how much he plans to spend, and that would raise some embarrassing questions for him to answer. It's easier for him to do nothing, and then blame the 'Do Nothing Congress' on the Republicans. By the way - The Republican House DID pass a Budget for 2012 on a timely basis (as required) almost a year ago. It's still sitting on Reid's desk.

Pat-1988241 "Hold up people...The real geniuses behind the financial collapse was the US financial services industry (no prosecutions yet)."

They were certainly a major part of it, especially Goldman Sachs (link below), but they gave a lot of contributions to Obama, so that probably explains the lack of prosecutions. I also blame Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac for ridiculously loose lending standards (liar loans), as well as Standard & Poors (for giving AAA ratings to junk - Mortgage Backed Securities).

But to see how absolutely devious Goldman Sachs was, I suggest the following link;

Gotta go now - picking up a dog for my 6 year old daughter from the Animal Control pound. Bye

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/how-goldman-sachs-made-tens-of-billions-of-dollars-from-the-economic-collapse-of-america-in-four-easy-steps

LogicReguired

Rick, Democrats controlled the House and Senate during Bush's last two years in office and were incharge of passing a budget that Bush signed. Democrats in the House and Senate decided the Budget, not Bush. Democrats and Obama take no responsiblity for what has happened since they have been incharge, going all the way back to 2006.

Wow, talk about misleading! Yes, the democrats controlled congress for the last two years of Bush's term but what you fail to mention is that Bush used the bully pulpit and the veto threat VERY effectively. In essence, he made the democrats fear that they would get blamed if a budget didn't pass – and he made it clear that no budget would get past his veto unless he liked it.

The democrats got so bad about giving Bush everything he wanted that I started calling them the "Wimpocrats" and seriously considered voting a straight republican ticket in 2008 just to protest the democrats' lack of a spine.

The democrats had a majority in congress but they were passing REPUBLICAN ideas. So…no… you can't blame the democrats for the economic collapse. It happened under BUSH's watch and was a direct result of BUSH's policies.

As to the ever-popular republican line about taxing the rich at 100% not balancing the budget: That's CLASSIC one dimensional republican thinking. It's based on a simplistic calculation of the total income of the wealthy and the size of the budget. Yet, anyone with even a basic understanding of economics should realize that economies don't behave in such simplistic ways. The problem is that the economy is really driven by the middle class. No matter how rich someone becomes, there is a limit to how many TVs (or whatever) one person is going to buy. What that means is that – as the rich get richer – there is less money circulating in the economy because the wealth doesn't trickle down to everyone else.

The reason it doesn't is simple. The very rich are smart enough not to open new stores that sell merchandise that the hurting middle class can't afford to buy. That means fewer jobs, which means even LESS money in the pockets of the middle class (the spenders). What that means is that an excessive gap between the rich and the middle class is catastrophic to the economy because it means that the average family has to cut back on purchases in an effort to "live within their means".

To put it another way – your store's sales are not down because we've been taxing the millionaires too much. Your store's sales are down because middle class people like me CAN'T AFFORD TO BUY ANYTHING. I am the sole breadwinner for a family of four. You republicans can spin this any way you like but the fact remains that I'm spending a fraction of what I was spending several years ago and that is not going to change until ***I**** have more money in my pocket.

So... you republicans need to stop telling me to live within my means. I *AM* living within my means and so are many millions of Americans just like me. And THAT is why the economy is in the toilet.

The United States is in line to get our country foreclosed upon, just like what’s happening to the European countries. The entire banking system is corrupt and rigged and the rating agencies are insignificant.

I think most people have figured out that Wall Street is one of the most corrupt and ethically deprived institutions on our planet. I think most people also know the media is bought and sold just like most politicians. We also know that Wall Street is one of many tools of the elite but not the main tool. What is very clear is that our financial system has an architect and carefully designed plan that is playing itself out in Europe.

The International Monetary Fund (IMF) is very brazen in its fear mongering that we have lost a decade economically. Especially since the IMF has been one of the biggest contributors to perpetuating the instability of the European crisis. The dominoes are beginning to fall in what is an orchestrated attempt by the banksters to consolidate Europe and eventually the rest of the world’s economies under one umbrella that is to be controlled by those that have always controlled currency and money. The most egregious aspect of this contrived extortion is that they are blaming the people who are the backbone of any economy instead of their greedy corrupt political and business leaders.

George Papandreou was pressured to quit because he lapsed into a morally and ethical responsible position by trying to give the people of Greece a say in their economic future through a referendum. This vote would have given the Greek people the choice to stay in the Euro zone and allow their country to be foreclosed upon by the banksters or leave the Euro regain their sovereignty and coin their own currency once again. The IMF bullied the smallest country as a litmus test for what is going to be a much more challenging foreclosure process when it comes to the larger economies. Italy is now in the cross hairs. This dilemma you are watching unfold goes to the core of the rotten apple that is the world’s financial system.

Folks, you are witnessing the death throes of a desperate corrupt financial system where the stock markets and the fractional reserve banking system are at its core. The volatility in the stock markets are a microcosm of the greed, theft and corruption that has perpetrated all aspects of our and other countries economic systems. In the United States, It doesn’t matter who’s in office. Our political system has turned into a two headed one party system with both parties serving their masters, Wall Street and the banksters/Federal Reserve. The stock market is just another ponzi scheme whose intent is to fleece the gullible at the bottom of the pyramid. The stock market is a rogue element of a financial system that is meant to funnel the wealth to the elite/banksters who soicopathically control our financial lives. It is reaching a point where there is nothing more to take from the 99% of the world. The banksters would separate you from your rainy day fund if they could gain access to your shoe box or secret compartment in your purse or wallet. The stock market isn’t the main problem; it’s the fractional reserve banking system that has set the foundation for outright theft. We are experiencing the biggest bank and investment robbery in history and the banks and financial institutions are doing the robbing. When you blame one political party or another they have you right where they want you, in fear, divided and distracted to the theft that is going on right in front of your eyes each and every second of the day.

When you have people on Wall Street day trading and speculating making half a million dollars a year in their twenties betting on people being foreclosed on, you need to ask yourself what is the true purpose of our banking system? At the moment it is largely a theft on the American public. MF Global CEO, ex Goldman Sachs CEO Jim Corzine knows this and knows that nobody with his connections have served any time for stealing the investor’s money (1.2 billion at last count). The financial system’s main mission should be to allocate capital to areas of greatest growth in the real world economy. Yet they allow all kinds of broker speculation and financial gimmicks such as the derivative markets which are based on non-realistic side bets which are now in the quadrillions. The derivatives market was illegal for most of the 20^th century.

The European banking crisis is a prime example of what is going to happen to all economies associated with stock market fraud and the Federal Reserve banking system. The financial strife in Greece is the model that will befall most countries. Greece is but a symptom of a cancer that has attached itself to the world’s economies. The Federal Reserve (which is neither federal nor a reserve) has been creating money (monopoly money) out of thin air and charging interest on it insuring a debtor economy for anyone who chooses or is forced to get involved with the Federal Reserve and their fractional reserve banking system. That is why this whole European or any countries current debt crisis will never be resolved and will be preyed upon by the stock market vultures. The Federal Reserve System is designed to cause economies to fail.

If someone loans you two dollars to run your economy and expects three back for the loan and interest how are you going to pay the third back? You can’t unless you borrow more dollars which puts you in perpetual debt and in a constant borrowing cycle to pay off the debt. This is designed not accidental.

Here’s the kicker, once the Federal Reserve/banksters have you struggling to pay off your interest, they send in their loan sharks the International Monetary Fund (IMF). The IMF will loan you money to cover your ever burdening interest payments but they attach a provision that if you default, you will have to give them your assets in what they call privatization (foreclosure).

Since the interest is exponential, you will default and the banksters will come in and try to foreclose on your country, like Greece. They are being told to sell off their own country to pay back the people who caused the mess to begin with. This allows the elite to steal your intrinsic valuable assets because they gave you paper (loans/debt) and the interest on the debt that is systematically impossible to pay back. This also allows the parasitic stock speculators to profit from this designed theft. They not only know the outcome of an economy, they can gamble on the economic bubbles at the investor’s expense. This cancer goes all the way down the food chain.

In the United States case, it doesn’t have to be that way. In our constitution, in Article 1, Section 8, it stipulates that we can “coin money” as a nation and avoid the Federal Reserve’s interest (fee charged on loans) black hole.

So don’t be fooled that the Europeans have come to grips with their financial debt, it’s impossible, it’s a designed virus that has spread around the globe. The Europeans are now replacing their leaders with technocrats/ex Goldman Sachs banksters. These people haven’t been elected by anybody. The stock market vultures will continue to contrive “financial instruments” (credit default swaps/credit derivatives) to defraud the people of the world.

Banks, Central banks, World Bank, BIS, IMF = Federal Reserve = Debtor economies, Debtor Nations (economic slaves) and carrion for the stock market derivative heist.

Keep after them Roy!! The libs don't like the truth or the facts but keep holding their feet to the fire!!

bigbenalaska - Our debt is much worse than Greece's debt .... Thanks Obama ....

No. This is thanks to the previous administration who unilaterally got us into not one, mind you, but TWO wars that we couldn't afford. President Obama is just trying to pick up the pieces of the worst administration in history.

Yes, and, ever helpful, Obama just signed the NDAA into law. Now, you aware of what that means? He should have vetoed that obscenity and yet he signed it into law. Media downplaying it big time. As to the debt, please realize that Obama has managed to increase the debt more in the history of the country in his short term in office than any of his predecessors. Bush is guilty, Clinton is guilty, they're all guilty of sailing us further down the river and giving Obama a pass? Please.

Socialism isnt what killed greece, a lack of productivity killed greece.

For the money the govt was spending - what were they getting in return?

For the money our govt is currently spending, what are we getting in return?

New roads, new bridges, new sewers, new schools?

Nope...nothing...zip...zilch...nada.

Since the 80's, we've seen the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, and it's a direct correlation to our tax code...that has allowed millionaires and billionaires to not "pitch in" and only reap the benefits.

Those millionaires and billionaires arent creating jobs, because every business person knows you dont hire workers simply because you have more money in your pocket...you hire workers because you have demand for your product, more so than your current staff can handle.

Since the middle class and poor are getting poorer, we have less to spend...we have less ability to spur hiring and growth...and thats why we are going downward.

I suspect, Greece experienced something very similiar in the lack of taxation on the wealthy (and high stakes gambling that doesnt create jobs)...coupled with the massive amounts of govt spending that didnt produce SQUAT for the Greek people.

At the end of the day...the bigger question is this: why do banksters/wealthy people continue to loan money to people/govts who've proven they cant pay back on their debts...and then act dumbfounded when it's confirmed, there's not a snowballs chance in hell it's getting paid back?

The people who should lose, should be the investors...not the people of the world who did not make the decisions that elected officials who likely worked with those crooked investors, to create the perfect storm we are all experiencing.

It's at this point in history, where the thieves (banksters and uber wealthy) finish off the raiding of all the people.

The next chapter in history, is where the people rise up...and burn the wealthy (and banks) to the ground, and the world starts anew.

mygirl - taxes have never been this low either...

Since Reagan, it's just been going lower and lower and lower.

Spending, not so much - and it's been mostly republican presidents.

Let me ask you this: YOu get diagnosed with cancer, you think well this is gonna cost me but i've got insurance. Sure i'll go into debt, but I want to live...right?

Then right before your treatments begin...you lose your job, and your health insurance...

Do you opt to continue treatments, knowing you're going to go into massive debt - debt you may NEVER be able to pay off...or do you stop the treatments, and risk dying...rather than "go into debt"?

It's a simple question...duh, obviously you risk death versus going into debt.

Only an idiot or Obama would choose risking major debt to overcome such a tragedy.

in this nation we are witnessing a fascist plutocracy rise u p and the ht end results will be the same

this nation unlike Greece gives billion to foreign nations. Spend more on the military then most major industrialized nations combined, and hands out revenue depleting tax breaks and subsidies to a group of citizens that have more then enough money to satisfy themselves and their siblings. Ad din major subsidies to profitable corps ,and allow the wealthy and corps to utilize even more damaging tax loopholes.. all of this equals a recipe that will starve the working classes of prosperity

the bottom line fact is the entire foundation of a capitalistic nation is the health and prosperity of the working classes. Once that is eroded capitalism cannot survive.

Well, there's a question in the argument. If you are unable to borrow to pay for your treatment, if you cannot pay for your treatment because you are already bancrupt, what are your options? No one will loan you more money, you have exhausted all options for acquiring money, even loan-sharks won't front you more vig, so what do you do?

Now, if you had been smart, you would have put some money aside, not lived beyond your means and have a contingency plan in the background. Now, as to the cancer scenario, the obvious answer is you go into debt in the hopes of living long enough to be able to pay off your debt. In the real world, people go bancrupt to get the treatment.

The Greeks lived very well on borrowed money, there are several articles about how investors refuse to buy into Greek companies because the union presence is such that no work is ever done to create a profit for the company. Rather, the companies exist to support the workers who rarely work. Then there is the other fact that many Greeks refused to pay taxes, and this was from all economic strata.

What Greece should be is an example of how not to run a country. Had they paid more attention to paying for what they got, rather than borrowing to maintain an unsustainable lifestyle, they wouldn't be facing their current problems. The government offered 'everything' for nothing and borrowed to keep going. Now the piper is wanting payment and, like the poor schnook who borrowed from the mob, they can't get money to pay the loanshark and they are broke and looking to get their knees broke as well.

Mozzie, I voted for Obama but I now feel he will be remembered as being one of the worst Presidents this country has ever had. He is not picking up the pieces, he is just kicking them down the road while adding more debt. As opposed to bringing this country together, as I had hoped he would, Obama has split us down lines of race and class like no other President in recent history. He panders to those that think out immigration laws are a farce, trying to buy their votes at the expense of this country. He insists on making the citizens of this country suffer under the high cost of energy while our government forces us off of the energy resources that we have yet to harvest. The 1% don't worry about the cost of a $30K to $40K electric vehicle or the $8K needed to replace it's battery when it goes bad. No, I think Obama has done us wrong and another 4-years in office might just succeed in making us all equal and dependent on government for our day to day existence while the rulling class lives in luxury while lording over the masses.

Jessica-1170252 "Since the 80's, we've seen the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, and it's a direct correlation to our tax code...that has allowed millionaires and billionaires to not "pitch in" and only reap the benefits."

This may surprise some people, but I completely agree with you, but not for the reason that most people would imagine. In checking, the 'rich' in this country actually have about the highest tax RATES in the developed world, so it's not a simple matter of changing the RATES. The problem is all of the 'loopholes' that are available to individuals and corporations who make very high incomes. A prime example is General Electric, which reported pre-tax income of about $15 Billion a year or so ago, but because of the 'special credits' built into the tax code (which their lobbyists helped write), not only did they not have to pay taxes on the income, but they actually got a tax 'credit' of about $3 Billion to offset taxes for other years.

The tax code is full of these 'special interest tax credits', which allow almost a $Trillion per year to slip through the government tax collector's hands. Both Parties know we have this problem, but neither Party will do anything about it - The Democrats won't revise the code unless they get tax RATE increases (effectively a double tax increase), and Republicans won't revise the code without tax rate CUTS (saying the tax increase should be offset by rate decreases to avoid just giving the 'tax & spend' politicians more money to spend).

The only way out of this mess is for two things to happen;

1 - Serious cuts in spending (including entitlement reform) - REAL cuts, not phony 'cuts in future spending increases'.

2 - Closing the tax 'loopholes', and increasing tax revenues.

It's not too late to save this great country from a financial calamity, but time is quickly running out.

Unfortunately, the special interest groups 'play' both sides to keep the status quo in place.

mygirl1 "What Greece should be is an example of how not to run a country. Had they paid more attention to paying for what they got, rather than borrowing to maintain an unsustainable lifestyle, they wouldn't be facing their current problems. The government offered 'everything' for nothing and borrowed to keep going."

Good analysis. They pandered to buy votes, using borrowed money to keep the scheme going, but as in all Ponzi Schemes, sooner or later the money runs out, and people get upset because of the impossible 'promises' by the politicians. This problem has been building since Lyndon Johnson, and every President since then (of both Parties) has been complicit - but they all thought that by the time the people found out, it would be someone else's problem to deal with - actually, they're right. Guess who has to repay the $15 Trillion of debt we've run up - not the politicians that ran it up - it will be our children and grandchildren. I doubt that they will thank us for being so selfish.

Lanikai: I disagree with your comments. The problem is too large for one person to fix, but President Obama was brave enough to step up to the plate to at least try. He is severely hampered by a do-nothing congress. And with the clown-car representation that the Repubs have recommended, it could only be worse.

Obama's step up to the plate moments all resemble the great government take-overs that Greece experienced. If you want a nationalized everything nation, one where the government controls all aspects of life, then Obama is indeed your man.

Wow, you just keep marching to that Obama drum and ignore the fact that he is a charlatan and you have been duped. Lanikai is actually using his brain and can admit he made a mistake which is more that the normal obot can do.

MSNBC and the rest of the corporate media are lying their ass's off about the Greek economic crisis and specifically what caused it. Here's something I found online that clears some of the BS away that is being spewed by corporate media outlets:

ROAR on BBC World: why the media lies about Greece

By Jerome Roos On June 24, 2011

http://roarmag.org/2011/06/roar-on-bbc-world-dont-blame-the-greeks/

In a short BBC interview today, I argued that the media’s witch hunt against Greece perpetuates a false impression that the Greeks themselves are to blame.

With special thanks to Naveena Kottoor, I was able to appear on BBC World Have Your Say today, for a brief segment on the international media’s coverage of the Greek debt crisis.

Asked whether I agreed that the international media are engaged in a ‘witch hunt’ against the Greek people, I pointed out that all talk about the Greeks being profligate, lazy and spoilt is simply not true (video below, my contribution from 34m50s onwards — somehow the audio got messed up):

Unfortunately, however, I didn’t get the time to back up these assertions with hard facts — so I would like this to use the opportunity to do so here.

Special thanks for the data below go out to Alex Andreou and Ingeborg Beugel.

MYTH #1: The Greeks are profligate

The unquestioned assumption in the international media is that the Greek debt crisis was caused by excessive state expenditure, an overburdened welfare state and an inflated public sector.

TRUTH #1: The Greek welfare state is actually anemic

Here are the facts:

• Public spending: according to the Center for American Progress, public spending in Greece is only 44.6% of GDP. This is lower than the EU average, lower than Germany’s 46.6% and considerably lower than Sweden’s 55%.
• Tax collection: the real problem is not social expenditure on the poor but the lack of tax collection from the rich. From 2001 to 2007, Greece collected only an average of 39.4% of GDP in taxes, compared to the EU 44.4% average.

MYTH #2: The Greeks are lazy

Another unquestioned assumption is that the Greeks don’t work enough — they retire at 50, take crazy amounts of paid holidays and lie around in the sun drinking ouzo most of the day. Angela Merkel, for example, recently called on the people of southern Europe to “work more, play less“, i.e. work more hours, retire earlier and take less holidays.

TRUTH #2: The Greeks actually work most of all Europeans

Here are the facts:

• Hours worked per week: According to Eurostat data of 2005, the Greeks worked 43.1 hours per week (compared to 35.7 hours in so-called ‘thrifty’ Germany, with its much-touted ‘Protestant work ethic’).
• Hours worked per year: More recent OECD data shows the Greeks to work an average of 2,119 hours per year — 690 hours more than the average German, 467 more than the average Brit and 356 more than the OECD average. In fact, out of all OECD countries, only the Koreans work more.
• Amount of paid holidays: The paid leave entitlement in Greece is 23 days per year. This is actually below the EU average, and significantly lower than the minimum of 28 days in the UK and 30 (!) days in Germany.
• Retirement age: Again, Eurostat data from 2005, shows the average age of exit from the labour force in Greece to be 61.7. This was higher than in Germany, France or Italy and higher than the EU27 average. It is being raised even further now as a part of the EU-IMF bailout conditions.

MYTH #3: The Greeks are spoilt

In a truly terrible piece of journalism earlier this week, Sean O’Grady (economics editor of The Independent) wrote that “for many in northern Europe, the rioting in Athens must remind them of a tantrum by a spoilt child.” He refers specifically to popular opposition to the cutting of the so-called “13th and 14th salary” as a key indicator of this ‘spoiltness’.

TRUTH #3: The Greeks suffer more than anyone else

Here are the facts:

• According to Eurostat, even before crisis, in 2008, one in five Greeks (among them almost half a million children) lived under the formal poverty line of 500 euros per month.
• An independent survey by Kapa Research and the London School of Economics found even worse data: a third of the Greek population now live in formal poverty (and mind you: this was in 2007 – it’s actually gotten a lot worse since as a result of these draconian austerity measures).
• Every child in Greece is born with a 40,000 euro debt on their name.
• Greece’s youth are now referred to in the country as Generation 700: because that’s the maximum monthly wage that young Greeks will typically make – that is, if they are lucky enough to find a job: according to the Financial Times, over 35 percent of young Greeks is out of work right now.
• The so-called 13th and 14th salaries (Christmas, Easter and summer bonuses) are not additional salaries. As a Greek reader on this blog, Amalia, pointed out: “Greeks do not get two extra salaries a year; their annual salary is simply divided by 14 and they get two installments at Christmas, one and half at Easter and one and a half sometime in the summer.”
• The Dutch get a 13th month worth of salary and Austria has a 14th month. Since these countries are not experiencing a similar budget crisis, this simply can’t be the cause of Greece’s debt.
• The bottomline is: it doesn’t matter in how many installments you receive your salary (whether it’s in 12, 13, 14 or 2,000 parts); what matters is your annual salary. As long as you make less than 6,000 euros a year (as is the case for 20 percent of Greeks) you live in poverty — period.
• Living costs in Greece are the highest of all of Europe.
• As a result of this lethal combination of low wages and high living costs, millions of Greeks are forced to work two or three jobs just to survive.
• Since last year’s bailout, the Greek economy contracted almost 5%, 50,000 to 65,000 business have been closed, unemployment increased by 400,000, industrial activity declined by 11%, the construction sector contracted by 73%. Partly as a result, suicide rates are reported to have nearly tripled.
• All in all, this is a humanitarian tragedy of unprecedented proportions. How could Mr. O’Brady possibly keep a straight face arguing that the people experiencing all of the above, are somehow spoilt children?

MYTH #4 — the bailout is helping the Greek people

Part of O’Brady’s logic assumes that the Greeks should actually be grateful for receiving EU money in return for austerity measures. After all, EU taxpayers are footing the bill for the failures of the Greek people, no?

TRUTH #4: — it’s an indirect subsidy for Europe’s insolvent banks

Here are the facts:

• First of all, the bailout is not a handout: the Greek people don’t actually benefit from the EU-IMF bailout. Even if the bailout money really did go to the Greeks, this wouldn’t necessarily be beneficial for the Greek people at all. After all, the bailout is a loan for which the EU and IMF charge an exorbitant 8 percent interest rate, meaning northern European tax payers and the IMF should make a handsome profit from their so-called ‘rescue aid’, while the Greeks will only be further indebted by it.
• The bailout serves not Greece but Europe’s insolvent banks: as former IMF Chief Economist Kenneth Rogoff pointed out last year already, “a lot of European banks are insolvent.” The real problem of the European crisis isn’t the fiscal crisis in the periphery, it’s the financial crisis in the banking sector of the core.
• Private bank exposure to Greek sovereign debt: BNP Paribas: 5bn – 7 percent of equity; Société Générale: 2,5bn – 6 percent of equity; Postbank: 1,2bn – 21 percent of equity; Kommerzbank: 2,9bn – 27 percent of total equity. That’s just a handful. More data here.
• Central Bank exposure to Greek debt: the European Central Bank has 190bn of exposure to Greek debt.
• ECB close to insolvency: according to a recent report by Open Europe, asset losses as small as 4.25% could tip the ECB into insolvency. Greek default alone would chip 2.35% to 3.47% off of the ECB’s capital base. Add in a Portuguese or Irish default and you have the European Central Bank – the flagship of European capitalism – literally going bankrupt.

But no one really seems to care about Europe’s ailing banks and the ECB. Indeed, hardly anyone is talking about it. Instead, we prefer to talk about the handful of Greek workers who retire at 50, the ‘spoilt children’ who refuse to accept the EU’s generous aid packages.

By narrowly channeling our ire onto the suffering people of Greece, we have completely lost sight of the infinitely larger structural problems we face in the European Union. Our private banks are insolvent. Our central bank is on the verge of bankruptcy. This is the real crisis.

Yet apparently, in all this misery and chaos, bashing the Greeks seems like an infinitely more enjoyable pastime for Europe’s populist politicians and the factually illiterate international media. It’s time we put these lies to an end and start speaking truth.

Thanks again to Naveena Kottoor and BBC World for allowing me a brief minute to highlight these concerns. I just wish there had been a little more time to delve into the real issues in depth.

http://roarmag.org/2011/06/roar-on-bbc-world-dont-blame-the-greeks/

bingo.

it's where we are headed.

thanks Obama

Kornfed

....and we cant get there fast enough. Wait until you get a country the size of the US in this situation.

That's where we're headed because, just like in Greece, our politicians have promised us all these wonderful things and have told us "they really don't cost anything." They have bought votes to stay in office by spending like a drunk sailor in a whorehouse. But it is really worse than that.

For the past 50 years, we have trained people to live off of the government stipend and taught them that "corn grows in a Green Giant Can." Don't believe it? Tell me how many people you know today that can work on their own car, grow a simple food article, raise and butcher meat, or even do some rudimentary repair around their home. What are they going to do when the stipend isn't there any more? Do you think they will just sit on the curb and cry or will they become an Athens Style rioting mob with a .45 colt for everyone? My money is on the mob.

When people can't feed their kids and it takes a wheelbarrow full of money to buy a loaf of bread, normally sane and rational people will start doing some really friggin' crazy things. They will cheerfully follow Satan into hell if he promises to fix the problems. I have some good friends in Germany. They are kind, rational, logical, and intelligent people , but about 80 years ago, they followed a really crazy little bastard (literally) for just that reason. If we don't do something about this out-of-control spending, we are headed down the same path.

I served with the 3rd Marines in Quang Tri and Thua Thien provinces of Vietnam. I've already looked the 2nd horseman in the eyes and Hope I don't live long enough to do it again. But, that is where we are headed if we don't get our act together. This spending like a drunk sailor has to stop before we end up like the PIIGS. It won't be pretty.

No, Thanks Republican and Thanks Democratic... Thanks stupid people who continue to vote for corrupt inept and deceptive politicians. We need a LAW now that says when the budget doesn't balance, all politicians are fired! All budgets cut until we balance...

Gov funding needs renovation. If you can spend less than you get, make it possible to have a rainy-day-fund; with public oversight. Spend all surplusses on debt...

Run the country the way Great Grandma would have!

And thanks to the ignorant values voters who astoundingly think abortion, birth control, Jesus, and stem cells are political issues that are more important than electing intelligent problem solvers to fix the issues we face!

Stay classy, values voters. Enjoy your bankruptcy - or rather that of your kids and grandkids!

But there's nothing to worry about because Baby Jesus will take care of you in the afterlife!

Just my humble opinion, but I think the U.S. economy is gradually getting better, despite all the sniping, cynical naysayers in, "The Party of NO," that want to see this economy fail, so they can somehow justify putting their own regressive right-winger into the Executive Office.

firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/02/03/10312358-did-obama-make-the-economy-worse-not-according-to-most-statistics

..and I agree with peteMT's above comment. Conservative social issues that don't matter to most Americans are more important to the Right-Wing, than creating jobs or resolving basic inequality issues in this country. Seems all they care about is rolling the clock back to a historically-revisionist past that reflects their bigotry.

The Greece problem is central to the "currency". Large economies incorporating small economies. Established, efficient, production mixed with low inefficient production. Low marketable produt mixed with worldwide high value product. Nationalities with varying societal values and work views. Etc. etc. The EU setup was at best, a hairbrained scheme. May yet work, but It will be a costly proposition. Never understood why those countries couldn't have formed a co-op, or union, without a common currency. Would have worked much better using currency of each, with values based on IER. As individual currency values increased with reasonably close production output, and market stablization, then go for the common currency. They may yet have to do this.

rradiko - that's a very good and eloquent way to put it. I tend to like to turn the knife a bit just to stir the pot. :-)

"And to borrow enough money to stay solvent, the Greek government has agreed to severe austerity measures imposed by the European Union, European Central Bank and the International Monetary Fund. The money will run out next month unless another chunk of the bailout is handed over. But the European Union wants even more cuts in government job, salaries and benefits."

This is a classic case of what Naomi Klein describes in The Shock Doctrine.

World monetary institutions do this to countries, and then they create a situation in which global corporatists come in and purchase the resources of a country at bargain-basement prices.

It is going on all over the world, and it has been since the 1970's. The people get lied to, they blame the government, they elect puppets of the corporatists into office, and they find out that bad goes to much, much worse.

The rich get richer, the poor get poorer, and the middle class pretty much disappears.

Those who are saying the US is next in line are probably not far from wrong. It's just that our economy is larger and harder to manipulate. However, all you need to do is look at what the Tea Party and the Republicans say they want -- if they get it, we're next...

Read that book! I had heard of most of the things she writes about. But I had never connected the dots... It is terrifying, but here we have a perfect example of the harm that is being done around the world by the aficionados of Ayn Rand and Milton Friedman.

So, do you live in a region that wasn't affected, or a tourist-heavy area, or do you just think that the problems are overstated?

SF...I live near ground zero....central Athens and I can say with 100% certainty that these things are being blown out of proportion. Yes, there ARE people who are TRULY suffering a terrible economic blow, but don't tell that to the hard-partying 20-30something set seen carefreely living it up in local cafes, bars, bouzoukia and restaurants on a nightly basis. A truly hungry, miserable people don't have such luxuries.

Interesting...

So the party continues...

JENNY

Unfortunately WE HERE IN THE USA AND WORLD WIDE ARE THE ONES WHO WILL PAY!!!!!!!

This is what happens with your global economy. With that system you cannot have any weak links.

astute free-dumb, and this is not sarcasm. The free market system intimates that the powerful get the wealth, and the rest - poverty!

Pensions are good. Retiring early is good. Paid vacations and holidays are good.

If people here in the US were sure of a good pension, many would be glad to retire at 53 and open jobs for the young people coming up. As it is, a lot of older workers in the US cannot afford to retire -- even at 65. And a lot of young people can't find jobs.

People with paid vacations and holidays are likely to be less stressed and less anxious. It sounds to me as though the Greeks have the right idea.

It's the crazy financial industry with their stupid conditions that are causing the problems. They should lend Greece the money to get on their feet again without all those demands -- demands that are intended to wring the country dry and open up their resources to international corporations. This is immoral and totally wrong!!!!!

You're exactly right bill...everyone who thinks our national debt doesn't affect them needs to read this article twice.

The national debt is a red herring.

Yes, it exists. Yes, we need to do something about it. But it will lead to the kind of consequences that Greece is suffering only if we let it.

If we allow those austerity measures in this country. If we hollow out government. If we cut public sector salaries and benefits. If we privatize everything out the wazoo. If we slash the social safety net. THAT is when we'll be in the kind of trouble Greece is in.

They have Greece between a rock and a hard place. Greece doesn't have the money, the financial institutions do. So they get to call the shots. They're in cahoots with the international corporatists, they stand to make a lot of money out of this (and they are corporations -- not people -- so they have no feelings of guilt or remorse for doing it) so Greece suffers. Happened in a lot of other countries, too. The middle class more or less disappears, some people find themselves in abject poverty, and the rich make out like bandits.

So be aware of this when they talk about the national debt. There are different ways to address it. The Democrats tend to prefer a predominantly Keynesian approach, which puts people first. The Republicans seem to embrace the Chicago School, which sees people as collateral damage.

You are right on point, Ron. There is barely an ounce of difference between most republicans and democrats other than what programs where they want to increase spending.

Amen, skydivr. For some reason they believe they have the answer. Unfortunately their solution is more money for their social agenda. They are morally and socially bankrupting this country.

no... they don't get it.

how else could you explain their complete disregard for logic

They'll just print more money.

And baby Jesus will care for us anyway; we'll be just fine!

lol

Yeah, you uber-conservative types are really "on the ball" here, huh?

Tell me, did you give your conservative grandma a hard time when she collected her last SS/Medicare check?

Did you complain when our country spent trillions fighting illegal wars of aggression that benefitted no one?

LOL, yeah, I thought so. You guys keep complaining. You're doing a great job.

MAYBE if we stopped killing brown people in 3rd world countries, we wouldn't have so much debt......hmm?

Indy, maybe if we ended our very unsuccessful and unconstitional war on poverty we wouldn't be in so much debt.

I don't know about wars being the cause of debt. Social Security and Medicare/Medaid are about 2/3 of the budget so maybe that is were the problem lies. You could cut 100% of the defense budget and still have nearly a $2 trillion for just SS and Medicare/Medicaid.

Indy,

Wars of aggression? We took no spoils. We allow them their own governments. We responded to attacks on ourselves and their neighbors. America has NOT conducted wars of aggression.

Actually, their problem probably stems more from a LACK of corporations and bankers than their abuses.

Greece has been living with a lavish social hammock for a long time while making their private sector more secure and "progressive". As a result their businesses are pathetically uncompetitive, their workers are lazy, and their infrastructure doesn't work. Getting out of the EU would mean being removed from the tariff-free single market, which would hit their economy further. Never mind "living off the land"...

For all people complain about "bankers and corporate slavemasters," where do you think all that money for social programs comes from? Who do you think keeps the economy running? Your hated 1% are the ones paying for your free lunch. Keep driving them off and one day you'll find you have to spend your own money.

SF,

First off, I don't hate the 1%..........that's your assumption. Second, It's also your assumption that people who chose to live off of the land are lazy, when actually, they work ten times harder and are much smarter than anyone who works for a corporation. Sure, you being and accountant makes you qualified to "work for a corporation" but what do you do when that corporation shuts down? Do you know how to survive? I guarantee you don't.........why, because the governments and corporations of the world don't want you to know............i.e."they keep you alive to serve their ship". What I'm saying is learn how to survive without them........not stop working for them or shut them down, but have the freedom of doing so if you choose..........and it is the choice that every human has (although there are many in this world who would try and have succeeded in removing that choice from others, simple example: The government trying to stop people from selling raw milk, or products they grow in their backyards).

Actually, I said that Greek workers were lazy, which I derive from statistics showing their rise in productivity as compared to countries with more liberalized, less protected labor markets. People who live off the land (as you yourself said the Greeks don't do anymore) aren't lazy; on the contrary, they work unnecessarily hard to the point that I think it's ridiculous.

When the corporation I work for shuts down I find another one to employ me. Or any non-corporate organization that needs accountants. There are a lot of those, and they're not going away. You're right in that I couldn't live off the land; I don't need to. Specialization of labor is an age-old concept that I take to heart, and despite the risk of not being able to feed myself in the case of total societal collapse, I won't be learning how to survive without supermarkets.

But thanks for your concern.

Gathering rain water in Central Athens. Sounds fun and super-healthy....

missed the point libby...but most of you do... and it's why we are headed right towards Greece

In the real world, olive oil is much more important than an airplane.

Itcommander72, how much more in debt do we go until you see an end or is that not the problem for this country.

There is no similarity between Greece and the USA and no proof to back up that argument.

Unless you call screaming hot button words like Wolf!!!

Pathetic really.

What do you do when your whole platform consists of one plank?

LOL.

Itcommander,

The capitol of PA has essentially gone bankrupt, California, Michigan, and Florida are on the brink. Wake up.......this is no different than Greece, Spain and Portugal, Italy and other small countries in the EU.

All economic indicators are pointing up.

Too bad about your high hopes for a failed economy.

Actually, ltcommander has a point, in that the United States isn't much like Greece. It's like comparing a life raft to an ocean liner, really. The United States is much more competitive, much richer, and has enormous scope to raise money if we need it, whether or not the economy recovers. Bond holders are unlikely to flee our treasury bills because there aren't any safer bets out there. Businesses are unlikely to leave because we have relatively weak unions and our tax regime isn't that brutal.

That said, even ocean liners can sink. Greece is an example of social policy and political complacency taken too far, and though we're nowhere close to that yet, it's still a warning we should not ignore.

Itcomm your seemingly not understanding the story. It isn't if the economy is going good or bad it's about debt and ability to pay the interest on those loans. Our economy can be doing great but if we are still spending more than we bring in we are still heading for major problems. If the economy rebounds then inflation will set in and interest rates will rise thus increasing the amounts the government will have to pay on it's loans (treasury notes etc.). Economy and Debt are somewhat connected but they are still two very different issues.

Itcommander72, just put your head back in the sand please. The debt is going up faster than your indicators. Explain that!

All economic indicators are pointing up.

Maybe in the minds of a Leftist, but the harsh reality is that like Greece we still carry a lot of debt, and no amount of continued spending in excess of revenue is going to reduce it.

Actually, ltcommander has a point, in that the United States isn't much like Greece. It's like comparing a life raft to an ocean liner, really.

Not so much of a point if you consider Greece is a member of the EU, and the similarity to the US is that Greece is like a big gapping hole in the side of the Ocean Liner, and the captain of our ship, Obama, is taking us too close to the rocky shore.

G.W Bush cut taxes........BEFORE the September 11 attacks............gheez, you can't even get your facts straight.

Yup and passed a trillion dollar pill giveaway and invaded Iraq. Oopsie.

C'mon, even Mitch Daniels fessed up. Why can't you?

That would not solve our problems, but it would be a nice start.

I also advocate scrapping the massive entitlement programs he created and closing the Department of Homeland Security.

Of course it's Bush's fault, but for those of you on the other side of the fence, I must ask: why hasn't Obama fixed it yet?

Cause of hand sitting jerks in the House.

I find it a little too convenient that the Republicans are still the problem even when they only control one branch of the legislature. Since when was the most powerful office in the world so impotent?

And that's not addressing Obama's first year, when the Republicans controlled NO branches of the legislature and didn't even have enough Senators to filibuster.

Democrats say that things would get better if Americans would just give Obama and his party more power. Maybe. But I'm skeptical. Convince me.

They don't need more power. They need some cooperation and collaboration.

Fair enough. So what are they doing to get it?

Republican partisianship and obstructionism disgusts me, to be sure, but what I see from the other side is usually whining, not solutions. Rather than having the answers, it seems to me that Democrats are just a different part of the same problem.

SF - you are the first one I've seen, other than myself, advocate for the end of the Dept. of Homeland Security. Like any typical government program, the intentions were good, but it grows beyond what it should be.

Government is like a cancer. If you continue to feed it, it will grow and grow until it finally kills you.

As for cooperation, compromise for democrats is to do what they want without change. Neither side gives on what they want (generally speaking, of course). To say that opposition is a one-way street by republicans ignores the opposition by democrats when bills are introduced by republicans.

S F Accountant: Actually, of the branches of our government the executive branch is the weakest. lt Commander 72 has it right. Without Congessional approval the President often can do little.

Now, I wholeheartedly agree with you on the abolishment of the dept. of Homeland security. Fearmongering brought the damn mess into being in the first place. It's nothing but duplication tripping over duplication, with too many making too much money off its existence. Regards

vigon-2763979:

That combined with increased oil and gas extraction has created a turn-around. There's still time for us, but not much.

There in lies the REAL short and long term solution for the USA! Millions of JOBS and lower energy costs which turn out to be a TAX FREE pay raise for everyone. It is called ENERGY INDEPENDENCE!

We are sitting on over 100 years worth of Oil and Natural Gas yet we give other countries "Foreign Aid" by buying THEIR Oil at $90-100+/barrel when we should be buying OUR OWN Oil from ourselves at somewhere South of $30/barrel. After all, it is OUR oil, not the Government's oil!

We need to find an alternative to it but we don't have to come up with it today... We, easily, have a 50 year window to let science and technology get the kinks worked out! Look at where the automobile came in the first 50 years and where it has come in this last 50 years. Look at where computers have come in the last 30 years!

We desperately need to get American companies manufacturing our every day necessities here in the USA instead of importing them. Can't we (you, me, politicians, etal) look at history and see that EVERY country we turned our manufacturing over to has prospered and in the "chase" for cheaper (and less expensive) products our economy slowly withered.

The "kick starter" is getting on the road to ENERGY INDEPENDENCE. Just the announcement that we intend to be there in 3-5 years would drive down the cost of oil world wide, immediately! We are, thankfully, one of the only countries on the planet that is blessed with arable land and resources to be totally self-sustaining if we want or need to be.

How competitive is the REST of the world going to be when their oil goes to $200-300/barrel when we are paying $30/barrel?

If we don't do something soon we, too, will be paying those prices because the oil companies and speculators figure we will just knuckle under and pay, no matter the price, because we NEED oil to survive! Without ENERGY our economy will collapse!

At $10+/gallon, how will our middle class make a living, heat their homes, by Fast Food (or any food)? How will we be able to afford to buy anything since ENERGY is a huge component in everything we buy?

Lol.

As I stated, only the most poorly educated and economically ill-informed Americans could support Obama once they fully understand the likely future economic impact of his policies. Nonetheless, those whose intellectual acumen is inadequate to provide a basic understanding of economics, those lacking a significant moral foundation and/or those living on government welfare will provide a base of support for Obama in the upcoming election. So, it stands to reason, you are at least among the most poorly educated and economically ill-informed individuals in this chat room!!!

Just keep making this about politics instead of money, ATruth, that is what the Corporations/Investment Bankers want. First rule of warefare is "divide your enemy". As long as they feed both sides anger and divide this country, they are free to purchase politicians (red or blue, it doesn't matter) to pass laws that amount to fiscal rape. The ruling that "Corporations are people" may already mean game-set-match, but what little hope is left depends on "We the people" stopping our rabid and inculcated hatred for each other and to recognize the real enemy. Do you really believe that every "libtard" hates this country and wants to bankrupt it? Liberals, do you really believe that every "Teatard" hates this country and is an idiot? We didn't get to this point by accident, and as long as we play the game, THEY win. Start with a UNITED DEMAND for banking reform with teeth, and repeal the Bush era tax cuts (all of them if necessary) UNTIL we can control spending with a balanced budget.

great post.

keep this around... most libtards don't understand this concept.

also... keep in mind the CDS were gov't backed and rated AAA.

no way in hell the WS crowd would have bought into without the GSE label

not to mention... GS is bigger and more power than in 08.

The subprime mortage was only a very tiny part of the 2008 crash. A very tiny part. The news media, the government, the banks, and investment companies have done a great job for years of covering their tracks and continue to do it to this day. The problems haven't gone away.....they've only been covered over.

hey... no it wasn't dam tired.

if only real AAA mortgage were bundled and traded we wouldn't be talking about this right now.

Alex,

The problems in our country started well over 40 years ago. And there were many, many factors leading up to hit.........1990's economy was a worldwide anomaly.

"The subprime mortage was only a very tiny part of the 2008 crash. A very tiny part. The news media, the government, the banks, and investment companies have done a great job for years of covering their tracks and continue to do it to this day"

So... what was the main part?

I'm well aware that the retrenchment of finance caused huge economic stress as credit became scarce, but I was under the impression that it was a domino effect started by the collapse of the housing bubble. You're saying there's another, larger element? What was that?

Markets go up and markets go down. But these are normal corrections unless you have lobbied and bribed the law makers into taking away your regulation. Then you can dream up any get rich scheme you wish no matter what the risks. So you first sell a lot of very risky mortgages that you know are likely to default because, as you were aware, the people you sold them to don't have the means to repay them. Now, what to do with a big load of mortgages that nobody wants to buy because they are likely to default? (light bulb goes on in investment banker's brain) After consulting with your Ivy League lawyers, MIT mathematicians, etc., you concoct your financial witches brew: derivatives with the risky mortgages mixed together with low risk ones all bundled together. You of course label the new product AAA and presto you have converted very low profit, high default risk products into AAA, high profit products for you to get very rich by selling. And you have created a market for very risky mortgages which helps inflate a housing bubble. And not finished yet, you convince your customers (prey) all over the world that the derivatives are really AAA by having special companies that insure them as AAA. And the insurance companies, not to be outdone in the quest for wealth, go public and sell stock which naturally goes way up. One problem, the insurance companies have hidden the fact that they don't have the funds to cover the losses if the mortgages default. So "doomsday bombs" for the financial markets have been created and when the mortgages begin to default, the whole house of cards comes down. But hey, as a behemoth of the banking system, you're too big to fail. You can ask your buddies in the government (some of whom used to be your CEO's) to bail you out. No problem. You get to keep all the money you have "made" with "free-market capitalism", including your sometimes million dollar bonuses, and the American public (the ones who actually pay taxes and don't have high priced tax lawyers) will pay off your debts.

Now, even before the smoke clears, you can go back to making up and selling new derivatives you have dreamed up because you used part of your profits and by inference your bailout to lobby the law makers so they don't make any laws that interfer with your game. And you can use your money to form PACs to get the politicians who will be influenced by your lobbists elected. Then you can continue to rip off the system and plunder the country.

Yup. That sounds about right to me.

It's all fun and games until the bubble pops. But just put a TARP on it, and the party goes on.

There's only one reason for paying taxes anymore........to keep politicians in a job. Do you realize that the politicians of the world would have to work really hard at "real jobs" if there was no such thing as taxes.

Taxes were introduced in this country as "temporary" to pay for a war, i.e., the soldiers salaries and supplies. Some politician got the bright idea along the way to make them permanent.........and the population has been fighting them ever since. Kinda funny that people left many european countries a few hundred years ago to avoid the atrocious taxes imposed by their royals only to again be enslaved by a group of men who imposed those same taxes.

"Only one reason" - really? And I suppose that infrastructure, public safety, public transportation, and other services we all depend on will be divinely created. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Every bit of that infrastructure would still be there via private enterprise.......don't try to kid yourself that it wouldn't.

attriya, while dam is incorrect on a couple of points (as to why we have taxes and what they also pay for), the premise of his point is that politicians use tax money to buy votes and pander to the special interests...I think.

Itcommander72 has taken their place! A mere second stringer.

Do any of you remember the phrase"reaganomics"? Or "trickledown" ? When did you think they were going to kick in? Where we are now didn't take 3 yrs. to get to...and we can pretty much thank some old actor for having a big hand in this. Please get real.

They were not First on the board so they took their ball (lessness) and went home.

rock n roller, the theory that cutting taxes grows the economy was in place long before Reagan. It was done in the 1920's and the 1960's before Reagan even got into politics.

What you call "trickledown" is supply-side economics and it has not failed. When Kennedy cut the tax rates across the board (as was done every time taxes were lowered), the economy grew. In addition, revenues to the treasury grew. The problem was and has always been that our government sees increased revenue as a reason to double, triple and quadrupole spending.

Bookem' Danno:

You are completely correct!

The analogy in this case that even the die-hard Libs can grasp is:

After WWII the American families bought, lived in and raised families in 9-1,100 sq-ft houses. The economy grew, they made more money and bought larger houses. They moved their furniture into the large houses and found they COULDN'T fill it up so they expanded to fill all available space!

The Government is not immune to this disease! They expanded to CONSUME all available REVENUE without regard to the fact that there WOULD be fluctuations in the REVENUE stream. When revenue went down, for what ever reason, they decided to borrow to fill the gap instead of adjusting their spending habits!

It is, NOW, a never ending DEATH SPIRAL, to the point that we now need to borrow more money than we can ever hope to pay back in several generations if spending went to ZERO!

I feel sorry for them......the brainwashing and rape started quite a few years ago though.

Just goes to show that Countries and people around the globe don't read real history books! They want, so much, to be like us and follow us into hell just to have a Buick and an iPod!

Our debt to GDP is currently 102.09%% and the debt rising at the rate of 150 million per hour. Here's the current clock:

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Here's the projected 2015 debt clock (at current rate):

http://www.usdebtclock.org/2015-current-rates.html

Bobby,

Please comment on this statement:

"If we create 10,000,000 new jobs (and that's a lot of jobs) and all of these new jobs pay $25.00 per hour (that's pretty good pay) the new workers will pay roughly $100,000,000,000 (one hundred billion dollars) in taxes. That's not very much money. It's only 10% of the NEW deficit for this year."

Where is that statement grossly incorrect? How much do we need to raise taxes to go to a zero deficit next year?

Economic slowdowns and upswings do not happen overnight. Therein lies the main problem with your statement. Clinton reached zero deficit in sixth (or seventh) year of his presidency. It will take a consistent economic upswing for many years to reach zero deficit. Just as in life, moderation is the key. A super hot economy created overnight is nothing but a bubble. Similarly an economic bust is a slowdown and not the end of the world as we humans perceive it.

Both Democrats and Republicans have to understand that to achieve that we need to pass laws to target bubbles and other economic manipulation that makes no sense but is perfectly legal. Nothing does more economic damage than artificial bubbles and artificial instuments dreamt up to make money out of thin air. Instruments that only a few people undrestand but everyone pretends to. Because when you pretend to undrestand something that you actually don't you will make a perfectly irrational decision when someone presses a panic button.

We as people need to stop listening to radio and tv talk show hosts who have no economic perspective yet they come up with silly mathematical equations applying laws of physics to economics. If physics = economis that there is no need to study the other. These folks are only out there for ratings and money. Go to your local library, dust up some books on what an economy is or how economics work. If you don't want to do that, read and watch Two excellent sources of how human behavior is tied to the economy.

Two sources in my comment

Google Tulip Mania and Nova Mind over money.

Bobby,

Is the statement within the quotes grossly inaccurate? In what way? Should there be headlines when 20,000 jobs are created when 10,000,000 aren't enough? What would you do? Not Bill Clinton, you.

In pure mathematical terms, no it is not. In economic terms it is. You are not factoring in no. of things. You are not factoring in tax increases on the rich. You are not factoring in savings from a failied adventure in Iraq. You are not factoring in reduction of negative revenue. Every new job that is created results in a positive revenue growth. A person who was drawing unemployment from treasury is now putting money in. You are not factoring in millions in revenue from larger and larger percentage of companies now making more money that they were when this recession strarted. Wall street upswing proves that.

And last but not the least, you are not factoring in the general mood of the populace. Just by hearing good economic news, people spend more therefore more sales tax revenue gets collected.

All of this adds much more to treasury than your one mathematical equation.

Read my reply again and please, where ever you read that statement from (probably the chalkboard of Glenn Beck) next time try to think on your own. You are a human being, well endowed with brain power who should not be lead as sheep.

You reveal too much, and too little. Your fall back position is to increase taxes on the rich, but you don't say how much and in what way. A little too vague. I believe Iraq is already off the books for this year. I'm glad you mentioned it. Your unnecessary 'failed adventure' comment is revealing. Unemployment funds come from the states, not the Federal government. People will be paying into state treasuries. Wall Street is back where it was. Where are the revenues you predict? Please tell me exactly how additional sales taxes will help the federal deficit.

I created ten million imaginary jobs. All of them paying a very high rate. And show, with very rough numbers, that those imaginary high paying jobs won't pay 10% of the new deficit for this year. And you seem to think the government is going to raise a trillion dollars annually through increased taxes on the rich? At what rate would you tax what income?

Of course my ten million imaginary jobs do not exist. It may be years before we get ten million good jobs back. But the deficit does exist, and grows like a tapeworm. This article is about Greece. I can soon be about us.

Bobby your obviously an economics major, in Keynesian economics. You should probably go tell your teachers they're fools and should be teaching the Austrian school of economics. THis is the sad truth of the so called educated in this field, Keynesian economics was disproved years ago as far as i am concerned. In fact it's what the people in charge of GREECE used. So trying to say oh we're different doesn't work, of course we're different we're a different country at a different point! But under the Austrian school you can see all the mistakes that Greece made are the same one's were making. I'm serious Bobby go ask a teacher about the Austrian school of economics and see their hostile reaction, read up on it because it makes a heck of a lot more sense and works a lot better.

Try 3 years........take a look at the 2015 debt clock I posted right above your post.

I would agree, except that the US has one option that Greece doesn't have currently. That is the ability to print its own money. I think the US has the capability to manipulate its currency and inflation to kick the can down the road a few decades. However, that just means it will be MUCH worse when it does finally come to an end.

Our government wouldn't mind the price of commodities doubling every year for many years, when they could pin the blame on corporations and "greed".

Look I have read a lot of your opinions and some are well thought-out and others are, quite honestly, slogans. Greece is in trouble, but so is Spain, Japan and Italy. Even though Germany is one of the more stable economies, the city of Berlin has a huge debt. The USA has doubled its national debt since Bill Clinton left office. So this is not happening in one country or another, but throughout the entire Western world-- in economies that have more government spending and economies that have less government spending.

This long-term indebtedness is not happening because of tax and spend liberals, or to be fair, either because of the wars of President Bush and military spending. It is happening because the Western World has linked its economy, through trade agreements, with India and China, so that the little worker in the West is now competing with $1 an hour wages and 2 billion persons willing to work for $1 an hour. On top of that, industry after industry has been shut down in the West and these jobs are either gone entirely, or replaced by low-paying service sector jobs-- (i.e. working in Walmart!, working in a restaurant, working in a hotel)

As well, the West is flooded with immigrants, in the US almost a million people a year, in Europe probably an equal number... so that workers in the West, whose industries are shipped abroad, are forced to compete for the remaining jobs with recent immigrants. So where can wages go--- more and mroe people looking for fewer jobs...

So if we in the West want to secure our middle-class standing-- and affluent lives again-- (not for 1out of 10,000 who profit from all this badness, but for 9000 out of 10000, then there has to be a reconsideration of trade and immigration. Without that, all this talk is just nonsense.. absolute nonsense.. If you think lower taxes are the answer, or more religion, this is just like in the middle ages treating a bacterial infection by bleeding or incense or special herbs or exorcism.. IT WONT WORK; IT CAN'T WORK BECAUSE IT DOES NOT ADDRESS THE CAUSE