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Police react as chaos erupts at a soccer stadium in Port Said, Egypt on Wednesday.
News Analysis
CAIRO – Tragedy. Conspiracy. Massacre.
However you decide to describe Wednesday's deadly melee at an Egyptian soccer game that left 74 dead, one thing is for certain. It is being described as a blemish on Egypt and Egyptians.
In merely a few hours, more Egyptians were killed than in any single day in Egypt's nascent revolution.
The incident cuts across much deeper issues in a country where soccer and politics intersect at all levels of society and social classes. Wednesday's violence highlights shortcomings in the country's sporting culture, free-speech psychology and politics. It exposes mistrust that defines the transforming relationship between the state's security and its citizens: failing to define each other’s responsibility to the other. And it sheds light on the country's past, while offering a glimpse into its democratic future, where officials are held to account and the public also must hold itself responsible for violating its own set of values and morals.
Those responsible for the violence at Wednesday’s game were Egyptians. Period.
Now, they could have been instigated, motivated and, even more sinisterly, hired to carry out these attacks on each other. But in the end, they were all fellow countrymen representing broader groups of society, whether they be pro-revolutionary, pro-military, remnants of the old regime or simply thugs. Today the country had to face up to that fact.
At least 74 people were killed and hundreds more injured when rival soccer fans in Egypt rioted after a match. NBC's Ayman Mohyeldin reports from Cairo.
Culture of insults
I have been attending soccer games in Egypt since I was a little boy. I and the millions of other Egyptians who attend these games are always somewhat entertained by the verbal abuse leveled at officials, opposing teams' fans and their players. From derogatory chants to straight-up provocative curses, nothing is off limits at these games.
And although I did not attend the game between Al Ahly and Al Masry on Wednesday, the run-up to the game and the chants heard during the game itself reflect a culture in which insults, taunting and provocation are not the exception, but the norm.
Such a culture demeans the very sport. And in a country where tensions are already high, the notion that fans can demean each other along political lines reflects the growing fragmentation in Egypt's post-revolutionary transition. It was reported that Ahly fans repeatedly taunted the home crowds, unfurling insulting posters and accusing them of not supporting the populist revolution that "liberated the country.”
Your soccer team is political statement
At the forefront of sports and politics are the die-hard fans of prominent clubs like Al Ahly and Al Zamalek, known in Egypt as the Ultras. The very name Ultra is meant to connote the most extreme level of loyalty by the fans.
Egypt's sporting clubs reflect complex layers of the country's past and current power structure. Al Ahly was founded by staunchly anti-British republicans. Al Zamalek drew its support from the country's colonial British administrators and their monarchist allies. Even Egypt's security apparatuses field top-flight teams from the army, police, military industry and border guards.
Str / AP
Egyptians sit on a sidewalk in front of the Al-Ahly sporting club in Cairo, Egypt, Thursday. A network of soccer fans known as Ultras vowed vengeance, accusing the police of intentionally letting rivals attack them because they have been at the forefront of protests over the past year, first against former leader Hosni Mubarak and now the military.
Who you support makes a difference in Egypt. Why you support them matters even more. When teams reflect such historical and cultural differences, it’s not surprising to find tension and violence at sporting events. At a time when sport could be a healing and unifying factor in the country, it has emerged as divisive theater.
In recent weeks, the Ultras of both Al Ahly and Al Zamalek have made reconciliatory efforts to each other. But it’s a small drop in the bucket following years of deep animosity. It was up to the moral conscience of the storming fans to realize that they were committing murder.
In the absence of security or riot police and in the presence of instigators or saboteurs, where was the moral conscience of Egyptians at the stadium to realize that storming the field in celebration is one thing, committing murder with weapons is another? Have Egyptians become that immune to violence to no longer draw the line of distinction? Are they so easily manipulated to carry out such attacks by larger societal powers?
Ultras Ahly carry even more political baggage, because they were at the forefront of 18-day street protests against the Mubarak regime and the military council that inherited power after the revolution. The Ultras Ahly have drawn on their past years of battle-hardened stadium experience with riot police in their ongoing confrontations with the military and the security forces. That has drawn them admiration and support from pro-revolutionary movements in the country for sustaining pressure on the military rulers despite "revolution fatigue" in some corridors of the country. It has also drawn anger from parts of the country that see sustained street protests as undermining the country's stability, democratic transition and economic recovery.
Police complicit or just ill-prepared?
But unlike in previous soccer-related violence, Wednesday's incident had a suspiciously high death toll. Despite the presence of security and riot police in visibly large numbers, the rampaging crowds were pretty much unhindered as they stormed the field. This has led many to question whether a sinister plot could have been tacitly in place to allow for such violence.
Many speculate the military council and its backers gain by exploiting such acts of “chaos.” Others simply say that this is an example of the incompetence of poorly trained security forces that are incapable of dealing with large crowds without brute force.
Mahmud Hams / AFP - Getty Images
An Egyptian man cries as he joins others in prayer outside Al-Ahly club in Cairo on Thursday.
I wonder what the public reaction would have been if police had used overwhelming force to subdue the on charging crowds and prevent the fan-on-fan violence. There surely would have been public outcry against the security forces for suppressing rowdy crowds.
It’s a lose-lose situation for the security forces. Act and suppress the crowds, and the police will be condemned for cracking down on what would surely have been described as a "post-victory celebration.” Stand by and do nothing and they are accused of complicity in the killing of fans. Therein lays the dilemma that Egypt's security apparatus faces: a crisis of confidence and credibility. But above all just poor technical capabilities in crowd control.
Even when the state is expected to uphold its responsibilities and preserve law and order it is handicapped by the lack of trust the general public has in those forces. Perhaps the police were ordered to avoid direct confrontation to precisely avoid the risk of injuring disorderly fan. Is there a solution where by the police are allowed to use force to subdue disorderly conduct that is disruptive to the public good. When and who gets to make the distinction between civil disobedience and free-speech protests where police are expected to keep a distance; and disorderly conduct where police must preserve law and order?
New political theater
Enter Egypt's new parliament. This trying experience has been baptism by fire for the new parliamentarians who spent the better part of Thursday debating what they as a body can and should do. As the only democratically elected state institution in the country, it has been among the most responsive so far.
Members of parliament took to the airwaves on Wednesday evening condemning those responsible, while vowing to hold them responsible. On Thursday the entire body took up the matter. They summoned the prime minister and five other ministers to an emergency session to discuss the matter. Feeling the heat, the prime minister walked into the People's Assembly by saying the governor of Port Said had resigned and top security officials were suspended
Parliamentarians did not hold back their criticism of the government's handling of the situation – they put the blame squarely on the military, its prime minister and the security forces for failing to preserve the public order. The proceedings happened live on television as millions of Egyptians and Arabs across the world watched hours of uninterrupted debate.
In the end, it was decided that the minister of interior will be investigated for his handling of the situation, many called for his sacking.
Nasser Nasser / AP
Egyptian protesters fly their national flag and the flag of the Al-Ahly sporting club while they rally in solidarity and support for the club and chanting anti-ruling military council slogans on their way to Tahrir Square, Cairo, Egypt on Thursday.
It was an example of a budding democratic body attempting to hold officials accountable. In the long run, it may prove to be fruitless, and the parliament may lose the zeal it demonstrated Thursday, but it does for now meet the immediate expectations of many citizens. How far the parliament can push its accountability will be tested in the coming days and weeks.
But the violence in Wednesday's tragedy also teaches one more important lesson, as one Egyptian Ahly fan told me, "We as a country must learn to share the blame for what we do, not just simply get used to assigning blame.”
Ayman Mohyeldin is an NBC News Correspondent currently based in Cairo, Egypt. He was born in Cairo and lived there until age 5. He spent a lot of timing visiting family there as a young adult and has been working on and off in Egypt since 2005 for CNN, Al Jazeera and now NBC News. He has attended both club and national soccer team games since he was a child.
Leave a Comment:
Quit crying and go clean up your mess.... help those who got hurt and help ease the suffering of those who lost a loved one. (just a thought)
It was obviously a set up by the ruling military to make it look like the revolutionaries who are trying to free the country can't rule it because they don't have the experience, it was all a set up.
What...nobody's calling it an Israeli conspiracy?
This looks more like the work of the Illuminati.
Alan Dean Foster
They are sharing the blame between Israel and America.
http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/3299.htm
These deaths are not really keyed on the soccer game... the deaths in Egypt are because of its society - islam, muslim, whatever cult you want to call it... these people get a rush over murder... their society gets a rush over murder... life means nothing to them when the score is 1-0... that is why soccer really is the least liked sport here in the US, other than school kids who are forced to play by their parents... it will never replace what we have here in the states that would matter to most Americans... murder is the nature of these people...
HEY International Soccer fans - this is a freakin' game... the nature of a game and the result of deaths to 'fans' should not be used in the same sentence... it just shows what idiots over the Atlantic these people are and what their fan base are made of...
Soccer is the most corrupt laced sport on the face of this planet...
@Pete
You should go to Egypt, sit down and talk with locals. Find out what they're like before making blanket statements. If you judge every society by what you read/see in the news, you'll have a very distorted view of the world. You have a theory, now go into the real world and find out if that theory is true.
what about that Giants fan that was almost beaten to death about a year ago? what about all the rioting and reckless partying when certain teams win a certain sporting event? why don't you talk about that?
My brother I could say ignorance is the main trait of the Americans, they seem to know very little about the rest of the world. Some do not even take responsibility that they are the cause of earth woes. Hhowever sport is not the problem, racism is not the problem, money is not the problem. It is humans and cultured greed that is plaguing us earth people. People are so polarised and quick to stir up anger, don't you see that not even religion can help. The persident of the US who is supposed to be a semi African is the war Lord of the times. What can we do save the planet.
I studied abroad in Egypt a few years ago in Alexandria. I walked the crowded streets alone on countless nights, between 11pm and 1am, and felt safer there than any big city that I've been in here in the USA. When I was there, back in 2008, statistically it ranked better than most of our big cities in term of crime rates, and Alexandria is a city with 90 something percent Muslim population. This notion that all Muslims are savages is incredible, both because it isn't true, and because so many people eat it up.
This soccer riot had nothing to do with them being Muslim, it was a matter of rage and political tension. It is a damn shame that in a society as educated and modern as the one we have in the US, that so many will read this story or see it on the news and as soon as they see a man or woman dressed in Islamic garb, "backward religion" is all that comes to mind, despite all the facts to the contrary outlined in the story.
Yes. This is the state of the World we ALL live in. No one does take responsibility for their actions. Religion though is part of the Worlds problems through out history. People have their own agendas and ideas about how everyone should live their life. Money because of greed. Racism comes in all forms. Humans by nature for the past 10,,000 years have enslaved, murdered and imposed their will on one another. There seems to be no common ground for peoples ALL around the World. People kill one another for a thousand different reasons. If your a mentally sound person and morally no matter what your Religion is you would not murder someone over a soccer game or shoot them down in the streets because you want to control people for 40, 50 or 100 years of rule. The only thing that can help is your own self and not trod on others. WE ALL have to live in this World and lets try and make it peaceful for everyone.
Egypt CLAIMS it's crime rate is so low that it is 175 times less than Canada, and oh yea, they had no suicides in the past 10 years.
Fact is, every time Muslims get together, people die. There was a soccer
riot in Nov in Cario but I'm thinking more of the haji
Pete, Colorado-301015
It's one thing to be ignorant. It's another to type and prove it. Travel beyond Colorado's white, evangelical Christian borders, at least, and U.S. borders, at best. There's an entire world of experience beyond your small homogenous world. Learn more. Then comment.
Pete, I will not try to enlighten your little brain and intellect, but at least have the honesty to say that your apparent hate of REAL FOOTBALL, which we call soccer, is based on nothing else than ignorance and resentment at the sight of our kids going crazy about the game and the growing popularity it enjoys in the United States, whether you like it or not.
I remember years ago when the Chicago Bulls won the championship and their fans went on a rampage, turning over and burning cars to "celebrate" the triumph.
You are just a bitter idiot trying to sound intelligent.
To Talon Konkel,
Great post,and so true.I see the same when going to other countries.But as you can see from all these boards,anti-Arab,anti-Muslim,hatred is too high for the truth to change it.Its a truly sad situation.
Ha ha, you're really living in a different planet. Unfortunately, common Americans, like yourself, live in a different planet and dump enough to think what you think about Muslims, Islam, and other countries.
The Muslim Brotherhood has been silent so far on this. IMO, they, and the more extreme Islamist party Al Nour will eventually rule Egypt. They will use this incident of an example why Extreme Islam needs to be enacted, Sharia law if you will. Egypt will become an Islamist state as incidents like this occur.
In a perfect world, the US could facilitate, but not nation build, a free society within Egypt, and then step aside as Democracy takes root. This is not a perfect world and the US is in no position, economically, politically or militarily, to nation build. We are done doing that for a while.
Egypt will struggle and move Islamist. I hope I am wrong, I fear I am right.
@Lar
Is there any incident that you couldn't use to stoke fear of The Muslim Brotherhood?
Also, your perfect world bites it! At least have free ice cream on Fridays.
Rickishay
And you experience with the Brotherhood before you just did your Google search RIGHT NOW? Read a little about Qutb, al Banna, Hamas, you might learn something.
As to the perfect world, you need to read and understand a post before you comment, I said this is not a perfect world. If YOU have a perfect world, go for it.
Lar-
I studied abroad in Egypt back in 2008, and met quite some Brotherhood members when I was down there. It is hard not to since, at the time, around 15% at least where I was at support the party. What struck me about the ones I met was that all of them were my age, that is to say, mid 20's, and were smart, well educated, almost always bilingual, and oddly, not overly religious. They used high end cell phones, I-pods, wore nike and adidas clothes. They basically told me that there is an old brotherhood and a new one. The old brotherhood is more extremist and is mostly comprised of members who are middle aged or seniors. Those people favor sharia law and a more Islamic system. The new brotherhood is mostly young, and believe that Egypt must transition to the modern world and emulate the freedoms and liberties they see in Western countries. Oddly enough, all agreed that while they themselves were muslim, they believed Egypt should remain secular. Since then, I haven't viewed them as the boogeymen everyone has made them out to be.
There is a great Frontline documentary about them, explaining who they are and what they are about. If you watch it you'll get a very good understanding about the group, more than the average citizen. pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/revolution-in-cairo/
Lar
The "perfect world" comment was not meant to be hostile, and certainly wasn't worthy of your rebuttle. I only reply because you seem to think something negative was intended. I do know that you said, "This is not a perfect world...". But, in your perfect world, the U.S. could facilitate...", in my perfect world we would eat ice cream on Friday. See, completely stupid, and not worth your time to even comment on. I apologize for waisting your time.
As for the other comment? I'm not defending anyone's stated, or ulterior motives. My comment was an observation on fear mongering. It doesn't disprove anything you said, nor was it intended to. I have no doubt that there will be extreme agendas and moderate agendas in Egypt's future. That's what democracy is all about. Egypt is a country with an Islamist majority, so it will most likely have islamist influences. That's what democracy is all about. See, we kinda agree on several issues.
Telling me to, "read a little...you might learn something", and "read and understand a post before you comment" was uncalled for. The 1st quote was assuming an argument other than the one that I was making, and the 2nd quote was a misunderstanding as to what I was referring to.
How my brothers were raping women last year during the demonstrations?
Hey! Where do you live?? I am coming over for the ice cream. What flavor?
Rickshay
Your second post was much more clear and I understand your commentary. Sorry for the condescending. It is the Islamist movement in Egypt that I fear will take over. You are right if they are the majority they rule. But then when they rule, how will they treat the minority and their neighbors like Israel?
Talon
Good post and I am interested in your observations in Egypt. My concern is that the crafty, intelligent, old school Muslim Brotherhood has been waiting to take over and they saw their opportunity with the young, Facebook liberals of Egypt who initiated the Arab Spring in Egypt using technology. I would put money on the old school having the power. They have been survivors in Egypt despite being outlawed for decades and they play the game well. Qutub was an unassuming man and that is how the movement has survived.
God wills it, so all is ok. Stop fretting.
Is it a coincidence that all the Muslim leaders who have been taken down or killed recently all surround Israel????
The month of Feb 2012 is the perfect time for all of the various pressures that have been simmering in Egypt to explode. None of the problems that people were protesting about have been resolved. Everything has gotten worse.
A foreign woman would be insane to visit Egypt as a tourist due to the rapes and assaults that were viewed on TV. Therefore tourism in Egypt is no more. The rich have moved their money out of the country and the corrupt with power have stolen everything that is not nailed down.
All that is required is just one spark and the riot that we saw yesterday will seem like a minor disagreement.
The problems that Egypt has with its food supply guarantees that Egypt will see more riots and more deaths.
If Egypt made friends with Israel then perhaps they might limit the damage.
To maximize the damage Egypt must blame others for their own faults.
Egypt has been at peace with Israel since 1978.They were the first Arab state to establish relations with Israel.But all the talk back then about how that was going improve Egypt's economy wasn't true.There was no "peace dividend" like they talked about.
More peaceful moderate muslim action . they just ain't happy unless it's killin time .
Wherehas
I think the bigger concern is all the leaders that have been "taken down or killed" where the ones who kept the hardcore Islamist in check.
Two points:
1) It appears that the revolution has weakened the rule of law in Egypt, i.e. chaos begets more chaos.
2) One more example of why sport and politics are a bad mixture.
I say get out of Egypt, Pakistan and these Muslim countries that the people have no concept of law and order, common sense and just plain mentally unstable. No more aid, trade or conducting business with these folks until they can conduct themselves in a civil manner. Now killing folks because of a soccer game. We are not talking a few but hundreds of folks in one stadium acting barbaric, without thought, compassion but just mentally and morally unsound. Now the riots start. This is totally insane, period! What is wrong with these people??? Someone please explain.
I agree Alan, and while we're at it let's stop sending money to these countries, Pakistan, Egypt, Israel, etc. They're all nuts.
But the US needs them to continue their bid for superiority, there has to be someone to laud it over in order to hide ones own monster, don't you think.
I don't need them for anything and I have no monsters because I would not kill someone over a game of soccer or control them for eons like some of the Muslim countries by one family or dictator. No one is perfect certainly not the Government of the USA. I also am not trying to start a fight I want to end it. I don't hide behind Religion like some do. When you point out the poisons of America. Funny how everyone wants to come and live here and prosper some while I do not see anyone wanting to move to Egypt, Syria, Iran, North Korea or other Terrorist Countries. No thank you. If we were not strong someone would take everything we have.
Just another example of Islam the religeon of love and peace.
Is there anywhere in the world where there's ongoing conflict, violence, mayhem, where the law is so barbaric especially againt women or minorities, where none Muslims are persecuted for their beliefs, that Islam is not at the bottom of it? Look at what's happening in the UK of late.
We all need to wake up cos it's making headway in Europe and is silently gaining momentum in the US.
By the way has there been a single US Muslim yet who has stood up publically and denouced what happened on 911. Other than wanting to build a Mosque on the site?? The ultimate insult.
God help us all.
@Neek
Have Christians ever had ongoing conflict, violence, mayhem, barbaric laws against women or minorities, persecution of non-Christians? Yes. Change can result in conflict. Many Islamist countries are going through changes. Sometimes changes results in 2 steps forward, 1 step back. Sometimes it's 5 steps forward 10 steps back, 10 steps forward.
Muslims (U.S. and non-U.S.) have denounced 9/11. It's a very easy thing to find out, if you actually wanted to know. Do you not know because hatred is easier for you, or does it just feel good? Maybe a little bit of both.
Maybe they should have went home and did an honor killing as Egypt does not count them in their crime rate
Idiots, if people can't handle something as simple as watching a sporting event, they should close all the stadiums and retire all the teams.
jashn, that's right, which means we'd probably have to close down a lot of football and baseball stadiums here in the states as well as a lot of soccer stadiums in Europe. There's a bunch of people everywhere who can't handle things.
These events have little to do with soccer, except as the author notes the imporance of soccer in Egyptian society. They also have nothing to do with Islam. It has everything to do with political games and with a frustration that most Americans cannot understand.
These are old customs made more difficult by Mubarak's corruption. Some frustrations include:1. inability to get married in a country where premarital sex is taboo (really). It is necessary to own a home (no mortgage) and furnishings before marriage. This is quite difficult when people make US$100 a month and where one son may be the only family member working; 2. There are labor laws, but with a little under the table money, they can be ignored. Many work for 12 or more hours a day for about $2-3. with no overtime or even pay for the extra hours; 3. There are good jobs. To get these you must pay upfront about 6 months pay to the person hiring and/or be related to the boss. 4. No government paper moves without under the table money; 5. The education system sucks. It is all about memorizing and examinations. Applied knowledge is not taught. One may have a degree without the knowledge it represents; 6. There is no social safety net; 7. It is next to impossible to find the "truth" about any event, any law, anything. The press is still oppressed; and on and on and on.
Even after the revolution, no one in government is actually talking with the Egyptian people about what is needed and how to accomplish it. In part this is due to the "everything is perfect" attitude of the Mubarak regime. Remember most Egyptians only know Mubarak as president.
The pressures are building like a volcano. These riots and other acts of violence will continue until the people feel that there is real hope for change (it just requires Hope that change is coming) and that there is a chance tomorrow will be better. The games being played now will lead to more blood being spilled. The old mummies in the government do not understand the revolution and why it happened.
The Egyptian people must also change their thinking, and many have. But the government is still in the way. Tons of papers (meaning nothing) must be filled in, filed, paid for, to start any type of economic activity legally. These processes were designed to keep the people so occupied with survival that they could not think of anything else. It was a paper prison that was added to all the other obstacles to live.
Egyptians must accept that they have problems (it is not a shame) but also realize that thingscan change. Things must change or more blood will flow. I live in Alexandria as an American. I fear the frustration far more than any Islamic control of Egypt.
Since when will Muslims ever learn to share blame? With them, it's always "the Zionist's fault" or "imperialist America's fault" or, if a bad thing happens somewhere else, it's "the will of Allah." Hell, they've even blamed there own earthquakes on female cleavage. Remember Boobquake?
The Muslim mindset dictates a staunch fatalistic dogma that the soul goes to heaven (whatever that may be) except in cases where the human blasphemes Mohammed or Allah(be blessed!). Thusly there is little fear of deathin such cases described here. Holliganism reigns supreme. Now lets address the other faction - police non-involvement. What lowly paid Egyptian police officer is going to risk life or limb to halt a farcical sports riot. For a meesly $62.00 a month they're expected to wander into an insane melee. No chance.. Would you??
Thanks Ayman for calling it as it is. You are a refreshing voice on all situations in Egypt.
All points well taken and most are probably correct. It is a shame. Can you really be free though if you murder someone in cold blood after a game of soccer or riot in the streets over this while other people die or thousand injured? If there is no law and order, morality, no freedom can ever be attained. This long history of Egyptian rule by dictatorship and imposed will by the Government has taken its toll on the people of Egypt. You have to be responsible for the actions of your own. The World is not a nice place to live in but we all have to live here. Human nature is the same as it always has been and that is not good. Live your life and don't trod on others. I don't have all the answers and I don't think anyone else does either. Hope you are safe and sound in Egypt. Good luck.
Why worry, a bunch of camel jockeys wiped out. The arabs will kill regardless, it is in their DNA. If not Jews, then Americans, and then all non-muslims and when they are gone, back to killing other muslims from other tribes. They are never going to be happy with a peaceful democracy so forget it.
I am sorry Calnomad. I have read most of your postings and your comments are mostly inflammatory and diplomacy sucks at best. Even though I agree with killing folks after a soccer game is mentally and morally wrong no matter where it happens I could never ever condone your thoughts and despicable postings on here, period! Someone should check your DNA! Try a better approach, don't post.
Calnomad, you need some serious treatment!
Leave it to MSNBC to trivialize this atrocity in Egypt. So this is the "Arab spring." The advocates for freedom and democracy didn't win in Egypt. Islamic extremism won. And the oppressive despotism the radical Islamic regime is going to impose on the Egyptian people will make the previous dictatorship seem almost benign.
The Egyptian people will rise again and cast the military rulers Souls in stones.
The truth shall set you free. The lies will keep you on a ball and chain.
Jenasus Trinity Parks
Just more tribal warfare. Like inner-city gangs, African tribal fights, Arab murders of the blacks in Sudan, or the religious war in the middle east the poor uneducated people band together to destroy a society ruled by the elite upper classes. Look at our current Israel-Iran nonsense, Iran claims to represent Islam but Persians hate Arabs. Iran says they want destroy Israel because of the Palestines but they would kill everyone of them because of some simmering hate due to an Arab invasion generations ago. Did you really think the Iran-Iraq war was over oil? Poor people are used as cannon fodder all the world and their rulers; hereditary, military, religious, or multi-national corporations want to keep it that way!
"It’s a lose-lose situation for the security forces. Act and suppress the crowds, and the police will be condemned for cracking down on what would surely have been described as a "post-victory celebration.” Stand by and do nothing and they are accused of complicity in the killing of fans. Therein lays the dilemma that Egypt's security apparatus faces" Substitute a few words with Soldiers, NATO forces and terrorists and you have the Rules of Engagement in Afghanistan. The current ROE is riduculously complicated and doesn't work!!!