
Mohsin Raza / Reuters
Residents, including shopkeepers and businessmen, hit the ground with their sandals to express their anger while shouting anti-American slogans during a demonstration in Lahore on Thursday.
American gunships launch a strike across the Afghan border into Pakistan, hitting a Pakistani check post and killing 11 soldiers. U.S. officials say the attack was in response to insurgent firing. Pakistan calls the attacks "unprovoked and cowardly." That was in June of 2008.
Three Pakistani soldiers are killed at their border post as a result of an American helicopter strike. U.S. officials say they were targeting insurgents who were launching mortar rounds into Afghanistan. Pakistan protests by blocking the supply route for U.S. and NATO convoys. That was in September of 2010.
The details of exactly what happened during Saturday's early morning hours in Pakistan's Mohmand tribal agency, on the border with Afghanistan, are still unclear, but the story line is familiar.
This time, U.S. officials say they took fire from across the border in Pakistan and called in air support, reportedly checking with their Pakistani counterparts before authorizing a strike. Pakistani officials say they were never consulted, that their pleas to NATO to stop the attack once it had started were ignored, and responded by again shutting down the supply routes.
One thing that is certainly different this time is the death toll: 24 Pakistani soldiers were killed in this latest incident, including two officers, making it the deadliest incident of its kind since Pakistan and the U.S. declared an alliance in 2001. The higher death toll, according to analysts, means more pressure on Pakistan's military and civilian leaders to react strongly.
There is no debating that U.S.-Pakistan relations have taken a beating over the last year. But have they hit rock bottom? Or is this just the new "all-time low?"

Ispr / AFP - Getty Images
An image released by Pakistan's Inter Services Public Relations (ISPR) on Nov. 30, 2011 shows a Pakistani army post reportedly targeted by NATO helicopters resulting in the deaths of 24 Pakistani soldiers.
Last straw in a tough year
The condemnation from Pakistan over the latest attack has been swift and unrelenting.
Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, Pakistan's Army Chief, called the attack "unacceptable." Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani said it was "an assault on the sovereignty of Pakistan," and pledged to conduct a complete review of all diplomatic, political, military and intelligence cooperation with the U.S. In addition Pakistan announced it would boycott next month's Bonn Conference on Afghanistan.
Amid the rising anger, Pakistan's military released a set of images Wednesday which it says shows the remote border posts attacked by NATO helicopters and fighter jets on Saturday.
"They're taking a tougher line than they have before," said Hasan Askari Rizvi, a Lahore-based defense analyst. "They're staking out a strong position to demonstrate within a domestic context that they can protect Pakistan's interests."
That, according to Rizvi, is even more important to the government and military establishments now, in a year when they've both lost credibility following a series of humiliating actions by the U.S.
Back in March, U.S. pressure to release CIA contractor Raymond Davis, who shot and killed two Pakistanis, forced Pakistan to take the domestically unpopular action of negotiating his exit in the face of intense public anger.
Then came the unilateral, American operation in May to capture and kill Osama Bin Laden within miles of Pakistan's premier military academy which forced Islamabad to choose between confessing involvement or admitting incompetence.
Former U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff Admiral Mike Mullen's September accusation that Pakistan's largest intelligence agency uses the militant Haqqani network as a "veritable arm" to launch attacks on U.S. and NATO troops in Afghanistan left the relationship even further strained, and Pakistan's Army brass feeling "betrayed," according to military sources.
This latest incident, according to multiple Pakistani officials, has forced the country to rethink its engagement with the U.S. "We cannot be just a subject of abuse and attack," said one military official, speaking on condition of anonymity.
"Both of these entities – the government and military – have been discredited," said Rizvi. "Within Pakistan they are discredited because of U.S. actions across their borders. Outside, they are discredited because the U.S. is saying they are helping the Taliban."
Public relations problem
But according to some, the government and military's credibility problem may be partly their own making.
"The problem is that there's not really a source of information that's geared to inform," said Dr. Christine Fair, who focuses on South Asian political and military affairs at Georgetown University. "They're geared to massage perceptions of events, and the Pakistani government love taking their citizens for a ride on the victim bus."
A growing sense of anti-Americanism in Pakistan over the last decade has been fanned by a dominant, conservative Islamic, public discourse, said Rizvi – a sentiment the establishment has tapped into from time to time to pursue its own national interests. That's how a discussion about a potential U.S. aid package devolves into talk-show debates about America respecting Pakistan's sovereignty. Or the discovery of al Qaida's leader hiding in Pakistan turns into national outrage that the borders were breached by the U.S.
"In Pakistan, there are only two entities that publicly support good relations with the U.S.: One is the military, the second is the federal government," said Rizvi. "You don't find any other political party or major society group openly supporting the ‘War on Terror’ or relations with the U.S."
What about the billions in U.S. aid?
One question many Americans ask is: “Why do Pakistanis hate us so much if we give them so much money? “
Despite the fact that billions of dollars in U.S. aid and reimbursements have gone to Pakistan in the last decade, anti-U.S. feelings within the population are running higher than ever.
Opposition leader Imran Khan has capitalized on those frustrations, channeling them into a groundswell of political support in recent months and a 68 percent approval rating, according to one recent poll. Separately, a poll conducted exclusively in Pakistan's tribal regions last year found almost 80 percent opposed the “war on terror.” The Pew Research Center's 2010 Global Attitudes project showed a mere 17 percent of all Pakistanis polled held a favorable view of the U.S. and nearly 60 percent described the U.S. as an enemy.
American money has been used to fund everything from education projects to agricultural development, but money has been slow to hit the ground and has not been used in ways that directly affect most Pakistanis.
According to the Congressional Research Service, of the $20.7 billion allocated for Pakistan between FY2002 and FY2012, only $6.5 billion was "economic-related." The vast majority, $14.1 billion, was "security-related," and the lion's share of that, $8.8 billion, was military reimbursement for operations supporting the US/NATO mission across the border in Afghanistan, known as "Coalition Support Funds," or CSF.

Asif Hassan / AFP - Getty Images
Supporters of Pakistani cricketer turned politician Imran Khan's party, the Movement for Justice, shout slogans during a protest in Karachi on Thursday against the cross-border NATO air strike on Pakistani troops.
Rizvi said that most Pakistanis fail to benefit from U.S.-funded projects, and very little is known among the everyday citizenry about just how American money is being used on the ground – a problem, he says, that is one of "public relations."
"Over the last few years, a lot of funding has gone to state educational facilities, to improve facilities, enable professors to go to other countries for conferences, but very few people know that its American money," said Rizvi. "The [Pakistani] government doesn't tell them it’s American money, they create the impression that the government is making this possible for them."
That same "public relations" strategy has meant that the establishment has failed to mobilize domestic support for the war on terror, despite the fact that 30,000 Pakistanis have died in terror-related incidents since 2001. Losses in that war – accidental or deliberate – are therefore met with greater public anger, by a population that believes its military is fighting an American war.
Treading lightly
In the days since the latest tragic border clash, there has been a flurry of high-level efforts made by U.S. diplomatic, military, and intelligence officials to reach out to their Pakistani counterparts.
The U.S. and NATO are using careful language. NATO called the incident "tragic and unintended." A joint statement by the U.S. Departments of Defense and State expressed "deepest condolences" and "sympathies" from Secretaries Leon Panetta and Hillary Clinton. Officials have pledged to fully investigate what actually transpired on the ground.
Following the incidents in 2008 and 2010, the U.S. and Pakistan found enough common ground to continue working together. The strong language being used and decisions being taken by Pakistani officials suggest it won’t be as easy this time around.
Prime Minister Gilani has already made clear that "business as usual will not be there." But U.S. officials and analysts express confidence that, with enough time and enough concessions, the two sides will ultimately be forced to find a way forward once again.
Pakistan relies on U.S. money and international support to bolster its economy, said Rizvi, and the U.S. relies on Pakistan's cooperation to stabilize Afghanistan.
"They will both realize that they need each other. They will have to tolerate each other," he said.
That may come at a price. Some believe the U.S. will have to take steps to pacify elements that have supported it in the past – issuing a public apology, or agreeing to not publicly rebuke Pakistan any longer, among other possibilities.
Despite ongoing investigations, Georgetown’s Fair believes both sides' dependence on one another means the focus will be on moving forward, not definitively determining the facts.
"There is no answer to this that's going to be helpful," says Fair. "I don't believe we're ever going to get to the bottom of what actually happened."
See a Photo Blog: Pakistan releases first images of border posts attacked by NATO



Border troops fire on NATO first and got the same response everyone else gets a ton of bombs,you then cry and call it what you want! I got news for you americans are tired of being yourstepping stones and if this group of politicians bend over they will be replaced fast! As a whole this country know you harbored the biggest dirt bag! We also know you funded direct operations against us! Payback is on the way!
Alan, get a Life!
Kick them out of our country and we will start being able to buy cold beer and use clean bathrooms in gas stations across the country once again.
Obama appears to be failing.
Hillary seems to be failing.
This entire Administration seems to be failing; unless you agree that this was their plan all along.
mhrjhn-The President went in to Pakistan and got Bin laden....Bush gave them 20 billion to be our friends and did not even look for Bin Laden. How has Obama failed? He did what we should have done 10 years ago. They're mad at the US because we finally took charge.
GTFO They don't want our help.
Sounds like the NATO helicopters didn't fire enough rockets to me !!!
Why is it that most posters here can figure out the situation, but our "leaders" can't? Stupid? Bought and paid for? Or actually willing to watch the country bleed to death, as long as the war industries make money? Surely none would call it treason....
I just hope the President doesn't carry his apology tour to Pakistan.
Being a Vet, i totally dispise you and your comment.. why dont you go live over in pakistan.. you seen to fit in with that pathetic crowd, you butt muncher. And yes i am a proud Vet.. obviously you are not and too chicken $hit to put your pathetic and worthless life on the line for this great country... GOD BLESS THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!!
Sounds like they are starting to get the message. The single fact that they harbored OBL while claiming to be our ally makes me question why we give them a red cent. They would be a worthy ally if they actually helped but how are they helping us? I can't figure that out for the life of me. Seems more like we are their military's ATM machine.
Billions of dollars going to Pakistan makes me sick when our economy is falling apart here in the US with millions of americans unemployed including myself.
Middle east countries have been fighting themselves for thousands of years and that's why it takes a dictator to keep the ragheads inline. Stay the hell out of the middle east and bring our soldiers home Obama.....don't transfer soldiers from Iraq to Afganistan....bring all of them home.
We can't impose our democratic beliefs on them and why should we? Why are we policing the world when we have a 15 trillion dollar deficit and growing fast. Even your great grandchildren won't be able to pay off this debt if they can find a job....lol
F..k all of you stupid ass Bush supporters, you are a bunch of useless f..ks. He got the country into this f..king mess over an eight year period. He lied about weapons of mass destruction, he ignored warnings from Great Britain about 9/11 and he led us into a recession. You expect Obama to fix it within the first three years in office. Bush had the cooperation of the democtrats, you @!$%#s have done nothing but fight everything Obama suggests. You are the typical wealthy, egotistical @!$%#s without any accountability. Start paying your fair share of taxes, then maybe I'll listen to your rethoric.
What a waste of money, we have police, teachers, and others that have been terminated due to no money in the system, yet we send 20 BILLION to theis corupt country that hated Americans. How is it our congressman and congresswomen can dish out Billions to these American- Haters and let our country fall? We need leaders in this country that have America as the country they support. It does not matter what the Americans say in this conflict, the Pakistan people will not fess up to the truth. They create conflict so we will give them more money to make things right. And you know, our weak spineless congresspeople will give them the money and fire a few more policemen here in the US to afford the trade.
The congress have cut benifits for everyone in this country, EXCEPT themselves. Insider trading- legal for congressman, stock bribes legal for congressman, disown America-legal for congressman. Give themselves a raise, while cutting every good medical or education program in the country-legal for congress, give our hard earned tax money to American haters- legal and they are happy to do so. America will die in five years if we keep our congerssman that teack the rest of the country that it is ok to lie, the retire with full benifits when found guilty. What a failure when they call themselves MEN.
I have allways paid my fair share, am a proud vet and had to close my company after 8 years due to the housing market crash.. now what can the government do for me, not one dam thing.. my company was "too small" to qualify for any government help, but it was enough to keep me in food and heat and the necessities to live and monies to paybills and them dam taxes..... now.. I wont bash Obama, he inherited a boot full of Sh!t.. and he can only do so much. But sending 20 billion dollars to that rediculous country is quite.. ...*vomits* sorry, .....discusting, when smaller companies like mine could have used help to survive this housing market crash. Maybe we, the American citizens should dictate just where the American money would go.. I vote to the American people, not a pathetic backwards a$$ little sht hole country like pakistan...
Uh-oh, out come the dreaded shoe beat downs. These ignorant dirt farmers need to shut the hell up. We know they were hiding Osama, we know they are helping the insurgency in the area and they probably have launched direct attacks against coalition troops. They need to just sit there, make more babies and get more ignorant or we will let India go at them.
You have to ask yourself - what would John McCain and Sarah Palin have done? Yeah...thats what i thought.
let's take our stuff. take our money, leave and let india obliterate them
Shut off the Billions of American Dollars to them ... bring those dollars home to our own needy folks, tell Pakistan to choose a side and then react with thier choice.
The majority of the money we send is military reimbursements for support received in NATO actions in the region. That makes it quite simple, no support, no reimbursement. We give them money to buy arms. They get no money, they got no arms to fire at us with. Where is the problem??
No Ken ...No ...The20 billion was u.s aid ....nothing to do with NATO..
Quit subsidizing them and get out.
I thought we were going to fix our reputation with the world when we got this new anti-war president.
BIG Government = BIG Problems
The only people on here defending Pakistan are leftists...and Pakastanis. lol... If u knew how to govern ur damn country, then we wouldn't have to chase terrorists into ur damn country. The Bin Laden killing should tell us ALL we need to know about Pakistan's intentions to helping us. Keep defending Pakistan liberals...lol
Hey MSNBC why dont you have anything on this: http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local_news/article/Marine-hero-sues-contractor-2313081.php
Another example of what a great nation state, "One of the world's great religions" can produce. Why is is corruption seems to be an integral part of every Muslim state? Why are the citizens incapable of peaceful resolution of disputes? I have no doubts that the dead soldiers in question were firing on the Nato troops and that the Paki command is not covering up their complicity in the debacle. We all know how discerning, accurate and truthful the Muslim media are, and how skeptical their public is of reports, right?
Didn't we learn anything from Afganistan? We supplied Afganistan weapons to fight the Russians for 10 years and now these same weapons are being used against our soldiers...Our government is fu_ked up bad.
I'm a proud american but i'm not proud of my government...bunch of ass hole idiots in my opinion. Afganistan is nothing but another Vietnam and we didn't learn anything from that war either.
March on Washington D.C. and kick all those politicians asses out on the streets and hang them for treason. I've had enough lying from my government
Amen! we should pack up and leave this god foresaken area. "charlies's wilson war" lead to the Taliban, lead to 9/11, billions of wasted dollar, american lives, body parts and limbs.
Cut off the "we pay first, then you support us policy",,,,change it to: "you support us first, then we decide what that support was worth, and then we pay"..
Pakistan is an unreliable and unsophisticated nation. I have felt for a long time that we need to leave Afghanistan and leave them to themselves. Pakistan, quite frankly, in spite of the crap our politicians try to sell us, is not worth the time of day. Let them solve their own regional mess and ultimately the Indians will take care of their sorry asses. What a grand day that will be.