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DAVID GRAY / Reuters
A Pakistan national flag flies alongside a Chinese national flag in front of the portrait of Chairman Mao Zedong on Beijing's Tiananmen Square during Pakistan Prime Minister Gilani's visit to China.
By Ian Williams, NBC News Correspondent
ISLAMABAD, Pakistan – At breakfast at my hotel I was having trouble with the cornflake dispenser. It was one of those tall cylindrical containers with a lever at the bottom that needed to be turned for the cornflakes to tumble out, only the lever was stuck. I gave up in frustration and almost walked into a young woman who'd been observing my dismal efforts.
"Dui Bu Qui," (“excuse me”), she said, addressing me in Mandarin, before simply opening the top of the container and ladling out her cornflakes.
She then returned to a table of what looked to me like Chinese businessmen. She was by far the smartest-dressed at the table, the translator I assumed, while the men – ruddy faced, a bit rough around the edges, and looking a little uncomfortable in dark suits and ties – were fairly typical of the traders or small town entrepreneurs I'm more familiar with on trips to provincial China.
I looked further around the restaurant. There were several more tables of what looked to me like Chinese businessmen, while at the back, more discretely seated, was a more polished group, Chinese diplomats or bankers perhaps, pouring over some documents. (Possibly the latest photos of the American stealth helicopter downed in the Osama bin Laden raid, one colleague mischievously suggested. The Chinese military is allegedly anxious to get a look at the plans for the sophisticated chopper that was capable of evading radar detection).
The reason I mention this is because this restaurant, in one of Islamabad's best and most secure hotels, has always been an anthropologists dream.
At any one time the scene provides a wonderful insight into what's going on, who's up and who's down in turbulent Pakistan. Journalists, diplomats, business people and spooks rub shoulders around the buffet table with Pakistani government officials and bearded frontier tribesmen in flowing robes.
On a recent morning, there were several tattooed Western men with shaven heads and bull-necks, some sort of security for one of the aforementioned I assumed, for whom "low-key" was clearly not part of the training.
China, Pakistan’s ‘all-weather friend’
It’s been like this over the many years I've been coming to Pakistan, and staying at this hotel, but I've never seen so many Chinese at the breakfast buffet.
One look at the newspapers lying around the restaurant, and it’s easy to see why the Chinese are so welcome here.
Jason Lee / AP
Pakistani Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani, left, is welcomed by Chinese President Hu Jintao for a meeting at the Great Hall of the People in Beijing on Friday.
"China urges US to respect Pak sovereignty," headlined Pakistan’s Dawn newspaper Thursday. While the Express Tribune declared: "China endorses Pakistan's response to US raid."
There has been much Pakistani praise of their "all-weather friend" in Beijing.
Pakistan's Prime Minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani has been in Beijing this week and just clinched a deal in which China will provide Pakistan with 50 fighter jets to the tune of $20-25 million a pop.
The visit was organized some time back, but China has sought to maximize its diplomatic advantage following Pakistan's humiliation over the killing of Osama Bin Laden, and the subsequent crisis in U.S.-Pakistan relations.
"China and Pakistan will remain forever good neighbors, good friends, good partners and good brothers," according to the Chinese Prime Minister, Wen Jiabao, quoted approvingly in newspapers here.
The authorities in Punjab Province have even declared they will no longer accept aid from the U.S., but only from friends who do no attach strings, read China.
Of course China and Pakistan have long been close, with Beijing allegedly helping in the development of Pakistan's nuclear weapon program, but it has only been more recently that the economic relationship has really taken off. China is pouring cash into Pakistan's infrastructure and natural resources, and in a December visit the Chinese prime minister announced billions of dollars of proposed investments.
No wonder the crowds around that buffet are looking increasingly Chinese.
Western diplomats, watching from their corner of the restaurant, seemed remarkably relaxed about the budding friendship between the two regional neighbors.
Whatever diplomatic advantage it may be seeking this week, China has welcomed the death of Bin Laden, and has every reason itself to be concerned about Islamic militancy across the mountains from its own Muslim areas. Western diplomats believe its private message to Gilani is likely to have been very different from the public platitudes.
And Chinese economic assistance can be double-edged.
Investment is primarily motivated by China's hunger for raw materials, and it is frequently accompanied by Chinese labor. Trade between the two countries is also heavily skewed in China's favor. Pakistani manufacturers cannot compete with the cheap Chinese goods flooding Pakistan's markets, leading traders to frequently grumble about quality.
Back at the breakfast buffet, the young woman who I'd (almost) bumped into at the cornflake dispenser, rose to leave with her entourage. She and a colleague carried between them a heavy bag that appeared to contain two Chinese tea sets – gifts, I assumed, for their would-be business partners in a country that for the moment needs every friend it can get.
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And the plot thickens.....
Yes, go to China. They make great friends with their neighbors. Just ask all those provinces that were once independent countries....
Indeed. Pakistan is but a pawn in China's "contest" with India.
What will a future of this region look like when China must see to it's stability. I wouldn't want to be there to see it.
Writing news in a style of a novelist rather than as a journalist, Ian William couches his anti-Chinese propaganda as a third-party tourist while eating breakfast in a popular hotel and observing the business activity between the Chinese and Pakistani businessmen. Despite the cleverly disguised anti-Chinese sentiment in the low-key soft sell propaganda , William exposes his bias when he resorted to the standard rant about the Chinese.
Using the broken cornflake dispenser as a prologue and epilogue, William is playing up the prejudices that the Chinese make only inferior goods as well as being greedy businessmen. In between the initial and final scene, William also recreates the stereotype of the Chinese as thieves of military technology, as greedy businessmen who are "primarily motivated by ...hunger for raw material" and as a "Fair Weather Friend." No matter how cleverly he attempts to hide his true feelings with descriptive writing and euphemism, Ian William's disdain for the Chinese comes through, unwittingly. Not surprisingly, this article is short on facts but long on his personal feelings. William should have entitled it "Mein Kampf" mit die Chinese.
If William had wanted to write a novel with a descriptive backgroumd, William should have added that it was not too long ago that the Westerners invited themselves into China to expropriate porcelain, printing, ship and silk technology, to extract raw materials, to forcibly addict the population with opium and then subjugated them.
But William is too busy eating his cornflake and engrossed in his own microcosm while pretending to be an observant critic of China. He is so observant that he failed to notice and appreciate the kindness from the Chinese lady who helped him with the broken cornflake dispenser.
Perhaps, William should be more observant of himself.
FatCat the past you reference is way way past and over. And shameful, but over and not currently happening. What is currently happening is hypocrisy. China bans religious practice and and discriminates against it's Muslim population. And is using Pakistan in it's dance with India. They aren't alone in deceptive diplomacy and deceitful flowery words, of course, as they would be alone if their friendship with Pakistan was based on compassion or humanity. However they really are seeped in hypocrisy deeper than other countries since their human rights issues are huge, and wrong and ugly. At least other countries when investing in a "good" neighbor, means some of the flowery bs. Truly are concerned about things like liberty and equlity, ect. The Chinese government has no concern for values such as liberty. They are in Pakistan for $$ and things that lead to $$ and only $$. And it is ill making. But however, bring it on. Karma will someday get the Chinese government for the way it treats its people, and the US has no fear of them at all. Chinese people want freedom. They will not support a war or conflict that is not about freedom, for themselves. History has shown them to be revolutionaries. The time is coming. They traded one form of oppression for another, and for them democracy is coming. Whatever the greedy guts in their government does will not matter in another quarter of a century. So, Pakistan, what hypocrites also, buddying up for financial and military gain, with a government that does not respect their people, their Muslims or any of their other religious groups. And would no way in hades support terrorism, that could spread into their borders, lol. Its all $$ and corruption.
China discriminates against their native Muslim population?!
Uiger Please!
hehehe
China, good friend to Pakistan....HAHAHAHA...when it suits them. Just like when it suits them to be friends with the US or North Korea.
China has its head in the game, make no mistake about it, they are looking to win, and to dominate.
But honestly, let China have fun with Pakistan, after all, they're practically neighbors, I'm sure the Chinese government will be happy to have a nice open border policy with a country that was "unaware" that they were housing terrorist leader numero uno.
I wonder how China intends to cope with Lashkar i'Taiba, Al Quiaida and the Taliban while they're at it. The Russians had tons of problems of their own with Czech extremists over the years, it's only a matter of time before China experiences much of the same.
But honestly, China does a damn fine job in keeping nukes from disappearing in North Korea. If Pakistan's government were to fall (which seems quite possible), hopefully China could assist in making sure that any number of those nutty terrorist organizations don't spirit away with some of the bombs.
China won't tolerate the dishonesty and lies - these are people that value honor - real honor, not the "family honor" crap that Pakistan spews. If Pakistan harbored a criminal that bombed China they would have been at war in a heartbeat.
I would not put much stock in a Pakistan/China alliance.
Darla, talking about karma, that is exactly what is happening to the USA. All the bad and terrible things that the United States had done to the world, like Darla said, Karma has come to exact pay backs from the United States in the form of terrorism and natural disasters. Talk about hyprocrite, the United States is the undisputed number One in the world - everybody knows that, except for the americans who had been brainwashed by the CIA!!
Pat, LOL, you do remember China was caught cheating in the Olympics recently and reprimanded with medals taken back. LOL!! Honor indeed!! LOL!!
@pat8
Value honor-you must be watching those old Saturday Morning movies. That honor thing is long gone.
Now as I always stated Obama is in Afghanistan for the Lithium for his battery powered cars but it will go to China in the end. China is there for the minerals.
Additionally, China is looking to put their people to work. China has so overbuilt office space that they have empty buildings because there is no one there to rent the space but it kept it's people working. So they will export the labor.
The funny thing is though that even the Pakis are complaining about the cheap products-lol,LOL. Wait until they get the lead paint and lead toys for the kids and formaldehyde building products. Once one Paki kid dies the war will be on.
Tiger- Karma, what are you talking about? Natural disasters happen everywhere.
Darla:
The current USA-Pakistan foreign relation is the product of the Cold WAr when USSR sided with India. As a bulwark agains USSR influence, USA conveniently established economic and military ties with Pakistan. America is Pakistan's fair weather friend.
As for China's human right violations, America's record on human right isn't so glamours either: Mass enslavement of African, deliberate extermination of the native Americans, expropriating land without due process, Jim Crow laws and lynching Black Americans, Tuskegee biological experiment on unsuspecting African Americans, "Indian Reservations," My Lai, Gitmo torture, Iraqi prisoner abuse, and etc.
Forever Friends - Pakistan is a proxy for China against India and its eyes and ears in the region. Chinese are building highways and rail lines through the mountains to Pakistan and onwards and slowly but surely will completely control Pakistan. They see US influence and trust waning so time to start making overt moves and Pakistan really does not have many / any friends left. Even Saudi Arabia is making overtures since it is Sunni controlled and the Saudi's are leaning heavy on China as a counter to Iran. Welcoming the Chinese of course has its consequences - but then who cares? None of them EXCEPT the Chinese look and act for the long term!
Yeah it's really going to be interesting how this one play's out in the near future, the Pakistani's welfare definitely isn't going to be China's biggest concern.
And yes I thought the article was a poorly written and sounded more like and attempt at being Hemmingway rather than a news story.
An attempt rather, sorry I hate timed editor's.
a thousand years ago, yeah.
You gotta hand it to the Chinese government. They know how to take advantage of a situation in order to make money. They will sell military hardware to Pakistan and keep the terrorist off their door steps for now. I am sure we are financing some of those fighter jets indirectly.
That is intelligence unlike some countries who give aid and still are unwanted in this region-just think about why this why this is so?
So much for connecting Kabul to New Delhi... Now all the copper, lithium, and thorium is going to be funneled to orient.
Nothng is leaving Afghanistan as long as the US military remains there.
China's "flirting" with closer ties to Pakistan will backfire in their faces. Pakistan is closer to civil war than most think. We need to get or destroy their nukes and leave the quagmire to China to sink in to. The real winner will be India.
I say we try to convince China to take over Pakistan, we have a healthy relationship with China
Kevin-749492: We have a healthly relationship with China? I'll buy that only when you discount it enough that I,m guaranteed consideral money wrapped in the proposition.
China has never been disrespectful of the sensitivities of Pakistan and it has always respected its sovereignty. Secondly it has always treated Pakistan as its equal in mutual respect and trust.
There isn't one Pakistan, there are many. The Pak's gov't failure to reign in the militants only allowed their internal enemies to grow stronger and one day soon create major disruptions in Pakistan.
Let China inherit this impending mess! We just need to find better land routes from the north to supply our troops in Afghanistan.
Ratee: China respects Pakistan? And treats you with equal respect and trust? Go try and get a visa, then a work visa and see what happens. They treat Pakistan with an, "as long as we hold the leash and keep them from crapping in the house" mentality. Pakistan is going to implode like all the other mideast quagmires. As long as there is explosives, gun powder, ammunition, and beliefs that blowing yourself up in the name of Allah is far better than living, no country over there is going to contribute anything to this planets good. Maybe if Pakistan is lucky, China will make Pakistan a provincial member of their country, then they can starve Pakies just as equal as they do their own citizens.
Good. Now we can stop sending our money to Pakistan.
Not so fast....
Keep in mind that this is Pakistan's PM we're talking about. Pakistan's parliament is not the same thing as Pakistan's government. Parliament tells China "the US can shove its aide, you guys are our bestest friends". Meanwhile, Pakistani gov't officials tell US officials "we really WANT to help with the war on terror, but our military is far too inadequate to have any real effect.... please give us money and equipment". Keep in mind that Pakistan's PM arrived in China while Kerry was entering talks with Zardari over the bin Laden fiasco.
Parliament brokers a deal to buy 50 new fighter jets (at $25-50m each) from China. Pakistan's gov't begs $2.5b taxpayer dollars in "aide" to fund the deal.
Pakistan WILL NOT do anything about the Taliban. Because its too valuable an asset they can use later against India. And now when Pakistan decides to attack India again, they'll be doing so with equipment the US basically paid for.
We just need to get out of the Middle East, that includes Israel too. They don't like us, never will like us and use Americans for their money - Thats it. Let them kill each other off, it may be for the best.
I agree with Alan on this one.
You cannot as long as USA is fighting a war in Afghanistan as Afghanistan is a land locked country which is dependent up on Pakistan for 70% of its supplies other routes are impractical.
This is the problem with people who write these letters do not know about the background why USA is still dependent on Pakistan till it is stuck in this war and why it has to pay for these route-it has little options!!!
ratee,
Don't be so naive. The route through Pakistan is little more than a matter of convenience. 70%? LOL.... its more like 50%, and that 50% consists mainly of non-critical supplies. Do you even bother to research the drivel you post?
Like the 16 NATO fuel trucks that were just blown up on that route:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/21/us-pakistan-nato-blast-idUSTRE74K0KX20110521
which happened mere hours after another fuel truck explosion killed 16 people.
Equipment, ammo, medical, and other critical supplies don't use that route. Other routes are not "impractical". They're merely "less convenient". But after the events of this morning, you can bet their viability will be more vigilantly considered. And Pakistan will have some explaining to do. They won't let NATO inside their borders to protect that route, but they're obviously not protecting it themselves, as per their agreement with NATO.
They deserve each other.
They have been friends for 60 odd years and they have always supported each other sincerely so what is your problem.
pakistan will buy the jets from china with our money we send them to fight terrorists when will the us wake up and smell the coffee. we need to cut off the cash to thesecountrys that allow terrorists or our enemys to attack the free world . we need to invest the money we spend fighting for oil in the united statesdrill hear i say and let those extreamists have there oil they change there tune if we didnt have to buy from them .and just think of the jobs we would creat hear.a win win but our gov would rather give are money away to these people and they go out and buy arms with the cash and fight out us service men. i say we leave afganistan and every country over there and let china foot the bill for them lololololololololol .gerald lusk
Pakistan, this is one bed partner whose side effects will linger for a long, long time.
Pakistan? Is that the bed partner that you have, and then wake up afterwards with a rash?
You are animal in your thoughts
Not a rash....a drip
I hate to be one of those correct speech people but...
...pouring over some documents.
Should be poring over some documents.
We all know Pakistan is a country of 180 million people with stone-age ideology and mindsets with no morals and scruples. Time and again they have shown theri true colors and known to savagely bite nations that feed it's imbeciles on humantitarian grounds. Can we expect a hooker or prostitute to have any morals or loyalty? Whoever gives a bigger remuneration for a stupid serivce, is the most favorite partner for that moment. IN this deal there is no long-term commitment. It is as simple as that with Pakistan and it's people!!
agni-12: Your analogy wrongs prostitutes everywhere. A well learned prostitute bites only in a pleasurably fashion.
Our Paki friends just sold China the remains of our stealth helicopter from the UBL raid. It is a sad day when several BILLION dollars won't buy friendship or the return of our property.
We pay Pakistan a few BILLION dollars a year, the export nuclear weapons technology to every terrorist state in the muslim world. They fund the Taliban and pay them to kill American soldiers. They rail against the USA on every radio and TV network in their nation and blame the USA for all of their troubles. Best of all, they support every nation in the world that is working 24/7/365 to kill America and destroy our way of life.
The problem is clearly located in our White House and State Department and has been for decades. Sad but true factoid,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,we need to stop paying people to kill us.
This may be the best solution for everybody. China will gain friends in the region, they already are given mining leases in Afghanistan. They have experience dealing with the sensitivities of Islamic adherents, like the Uyghurs in west China. They are firm when it comes to misbehavior, and less inhibited when it comes to human rights, so they will be very effective against the terrorists.
I think we need to encourage this allegiance.
Chinese are not stupid like USA or USSR without fighting a war anywhere they are winning the war of economics..not one person mentioned this one fact over here because of person prejudices and lack of understanding of the biggest fact of today..---China is getting ahead of all countries including USA!!!
Where do you think the money that China is giving to Pakistan came from? Here's a hint: pick up anything you can reach, turn it over and read the bottom.
china?
So what's so new here? Pakistan is nothing more than a country full of cut-throat butchers, thieves, liars (Bin Laden ain't here and don't ask us such stupid questions) and sh it-fingered low life politicians. So China is licking their excrement to get their Imperial Communist Chinese foot in the door. CHINA......knows how a whore should act with a "client" and they have become very good at it. Nothing new here.....................
Great, now maybe Chinese troops can try to prevent terrorists from having a safe haven in the region and ours can come home.
LOL....
Pakistan won't let our troops in to kill off the Taliban. I don't think they'll be letting the Chinese in to do it either.
Certainly have no idea what is going on over there.....They hate India.....They love China....If we leave Pakistan on it's own what will happen? How do India and China think in terms of their locations? Are they friendly? I just want to make sure America is taking care of America first.
Maybe China will take over Pakistan, haha. Its probably better for us. They would get rid of all those stupid terrorists and tribes. Plus, they would be getting all the minerals in Pakistan. (Free)
So why is the US involved in these countries again? Oh the fake terrorism thing Cheney created with the other Bush/Clinton/Bush/IObama criminal cartel.
So, let me get this straight. We have provided them so far about $20.71 ($14.1B in military aid and $6.5B in civilian aid) for the past 10 years or so. See the below link. http://www.foreignpolicy.com/files/fp_uploaded_documents/110510_pakaid.pdf" Plus Senator John Kerry, is now proposing that US should provide $1.5 B per year for the next five years starting with FY2012. See the news article below. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/02/world/asia/02pakistan.html" These Pakis are taking our money and using it to buy Chinese fighter planes and use it to defend its border with India. Nice use of our tax payer dollars.
Did you read that: These Pakis are taking our money and using it to buy Chinese fighter planes and use it to defend its border with India. Why should that bother us? It say on the bottom "Made in China", they will take them out one time and then fall apart. All their stuff is crap and is not worth the money spent.
So that is where the BILLIONS we give them in aid goes, they but Chinese fighter jets with it!!! What MORE evidence do we need to prove that we should not be giving them any more aid?
Yes, they buy fighter jets and also help support our enemies with our own money. YES!
So, let me get this straight. We have provided them so far about $20.71 Billions ($14.1B in military aid and $6.5B in civilian aid) for the past 10 years or so. See the below link.
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/files/fp_uploaded_documents/110510_pakaid.pdf"
Plus Senator John Kerry, is now proposing that US should provide $1.5 B per year for the next five years starting with FY2012. See the news article below.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/02/world/asia/02pakistan.html"
These Pakis are taking our money and using it to buy Chinese fighter planes and use it to defend its border with India. Nice use of our tax payer dollars.
How nice?
Almost.
They don't use the money to "defend" anything. They use it to "prepare" for their imminent war they will themselves instigate using Taliban militants and suicide bombers, which Inida will undoubtedly retaliate against.
The mistake many make, is in the assumption that this has anything to do with politics. It doesn't. This is purely fueled by religious difference.
For a better understanding, see this link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/south_asia/2002/india_pakistan/timeline/default.stm
Defend it's borders, against India? More like defend it's borders from American's and Nato! We should have gone back into Pakistan and retrieved the tail section and who/what ever else was left when we KILLED osama bin laden.
Remember the 1999 Belgrade Chinese Embassy bombing? It was meant to take out the pieces of US Stealth Fighter that the Chinese had in its possession from the Serbs. Yes, we should have gone back to Attolabad and retrieved that darn helicopter pieces.
Well obama has about killed and ailing great known as the usa. I would like to thank all those complete idiots that voted for the last round of crooks in politics in america. Our kids, grand children and a few more generations will live a good life, if they don't want anything much. Maybe china will loan us enough money to pay the welfare system, the prison system and the rest of the government workers. Oh now who else will have a job, not general motors, not chrysler, maybe ford and toyota. But the cars will have to be the size of a shoe box. Hey maybe we can go to canada for something. Oh I forgot we have a huge government sponsored drug business. That should fund the cia and other forces. Maybe China will give us some of there old stuff to fend off and attack from the drug cartels. The young adults of america should be commended for this destruction of america or at least the final blow. Some county may nuke us here in the USA and put us out of our misery.
Remember, our politicians chose this outcome. I'm not a politician, but I can see all those stupid decisions they make. (Like, let other countries take our jobs. )
What's a Be-ach, is that Pakistan is probably paying for the Chinese jets with U.S. foreign aid. (That's you and me!) We should support India a little more and to hell with Pakistan.
Yes they will remain friends, until another 9/11 type event happens in China, and then it will be a similar story again. China will be bombarding pakistan, looking for their no1 enemy.
China is being played like a fiddle.
Just like the US has been for the last 10 years. Pakistan is NOT their friend, any more than they're ours. They'll continue to exploit China's "good will", until it no longer suits them. Just like they did to us. And that will be "if" they finally realise their ultimate goal of defeating India.
Poor China.
I have always believed Muslims like communism and free hand outs, Pakistani use to kiss American Ass now then turn to China, there is old saying friend of enemy is friend of mine . Pakistani should get educated.
With the exception of Mr.Ghulam Ahmad Parvez’s pro-Pakistan Tulu-i-Islam, group, all religious groups and parties, including the Jamiat-i-Ulama-i-Hind, the Majli-i-Ahrar and the Jamaat-i-Islami, had all bitterly opposed the Pakistan Movement and abused its leadership which was secular.The Muslim League, the Party that led the Pakistan movement, was a party of modern educated Muslim professionals and government job seekers (whom, for the sake of brevity, we may call the ‘salariat’). It had little to do with the outlook of bigoted mullahs.It was free of any millenarian ideological pretences about creating an Islamic state. It was a movement of Muslims rather than a movement of Islam. Behind it was a new class of English educated Muslim professionals and government job seekers that came into being in the 19th century. It got organised politically by the turn of the century, seeking a better deal for themselves vis-à-vis Hindus who were advancing relatively more rapidly in these fields.
When the Muslim League was founded in 1906 at a meeting convened by Nawab Salimullah at Dhaka, the new party was immediately hi-jacked by the Aligarh group led by Nawab Viqar ul-Mulk. Aligarh was at the vanguard of the new Northern Indian Muslim salariat class, the sons of the Muslim Ashraf, who were deeply conscious of the loss of their privileges with the advent of British rule and the relatively more rapid rise of Hindu educated classes. The main base of the Muslim salariat was in UP and Bihar for, at that time, its was relatively weaker in the Muslim majority provinces.The Muslim League was focused entirely on its secular demands of western educated Muslim professionals and the salariat. Attempts to place the issue of Islamic ideology on the agenda of the Muslim League were both rare and invariably unsuccessful. Arguably, the earliest of such attempts was one by Shibli Numani to Islamise the Aligarh syllabus. They threaten the very fabric of Pakistan society. Threats of disruption from religious parties have escalated in recent decades. They have steadily grown in strength since the time of General Zia. They now claim that they are thet rue custodians of Pakistan and that it was they, the mullahs, who had fought successfully for Pakistan, to establish a theocratic state for Muslims. Facts contradict such claims.
President Ziaul Haq, an extremely conservative Muslim, built upon the Islamisation Yahya Khan and Bhutto had started. At this point, the communist takeover in Afghanistan and the eventual military intervention by the Soviet Union furthered the cause of Islamisation. In its effort to defeat the Soviet Union, the US threw in billions of dollars and weapons, and provided training to bolster the Islamisits and jihadists. As a matter of fact, it was the US that injected the concept of international jihad into the Pak-Afghan localised religious movements through systematic propaganda and even a change in the curriculum being taught in Pakistan.
After the Afghan war ended, the US left in haste, leaving behind the mess of several hundered thousand jihadis. The Pakistani establishment, intoxicated by the routing of the Soviets, undertook ventures to conquer Afghanistan and Kashmir, and destabilise India. The mullah-military nexus was further strengthened, playing havoc with all other institutions of the state. The rapidly changing political economy of Pakistan through the electronic media and other technologies was unsettling the institutions as well. This was the worst combination of factors that created anarchy and lawlessness in the country. This phase has been prevalent till very recently, despite the US intervention after 9/11. However, the situation has been changing for the last few years with some institutions of the state getting stronger and the mullah-military alliance teetering. Emerging trends need a lengthy discussion which is beyond the scope of this column.
Any one who is witnessing the debates over the proposal to build an Islamic center in New York City has watched an unraveling of emotions across America. Muslims in America — numbering between 4 million and 7 million — have been chastised for not being sufficiently sorry for the acts of 19 hijackers on that terrible day in September 2001, or sensitive enough to the victims' families. It has been a momentously myopic moment in American history, made worse by violent acts and signs that disparaged Muslims and Islam.Expressing one's opinion is, of course, a right; nobody would say otherwise. However, in places like California, Kentucky, Texas, Florida, New York, Wisconsin and elsewhere, disturbing incidents have either taken place or are being planned. These actions undermine years of interfaith efforts and belie our ideals of tolerance, pluralism and multiculturalism.Goldberg is right to note that hate crimes occur against other groups, namely Jews, and those crimes rightfully disturb and disgust. There are people who harbor strong anti-Semitic views, and some cowards act on those views. The hate crimes committed against Jews are greater in number than the crimes committed against Muslims, but does that make the crimes committed against Muslims insignificant? Of course not. If anything, Jews and Muslims share a common interest in fighting hate crimes in America and working to strengthen pluralism.
Sir Ramesh Manghirmalani
The problem is not a long discussion of political intrigue. It's far more simple. There is an emerging conflict of values and laws of conduct. Islam is a bigoted religion, even though most of it's adherents are not bigoted. It's literal followers are. The Koran, and its satellite Hadith demand it be regarded is the single highest act of literary creation, and yet it reads like it was written by a 7th century warlord with polemics, condemnations and death warrants against disbeleivers. The imperatives of the prophet are repulsive, if you disbelieve. The problems will persist until the veil of denial is removed and the core is examined...objectively.
Sir Ramesh Manghirmalani, I for one appreciate your detailed posting on historical and evolutionary moves of Pakistan from the educated Muslim league to the religious Mullahs. I remember seeing a documentary on this a while back. I certainly appreciate the wisdom of our country to put a separation of church and state, and I am blessed to live here in America with freedom of speech and religion, while not having that religion given any rights to govern me. We all see what religious fanaticism does to the freedom of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. It seems that no matter where we put our money to help those in need to fight against their abusers/invaders, there will always be those who will abuse the power they are new to receive. I did not know we had propagandized the school curriculum though..........interesting. Perhaps if the American intelligence officers had done their homework more carefully, our government might not have instigated the growth of the jihad's movement by helping those to fight against the soviet union. However, as we sometimes say here, the enemy of my friend is my enemy too. The difference between here and there is much, and the one on hate crimes is true, but I counter that at least here the hate crime is searched out, found and prosecuted by our government who separates church and state. There is no separation of church and state truly living in Pakistan, so they are not searching and are not prosecuting in those crimes, much less in almost all other crimes there. Being a female, I feel the most pity for the women and girls of that country. Until religious governance is banned, I suspect it will never evolve.
Nice pontification. However, there are holes and caveats to everything you said that can be summed up in a few counter-point questions:
1) When are the people in countries that produce Islamic extremists(terrorists) going to really do something to discredit and show the difference between Islam and terrorists? Example: Seeking out and identifying all the teaching facilities that teach strict hate for America and anyone that isn't muslim must die because they are infidels, and must have their heads removed.
A: Don't bother, we know we are there and don't do anything, thus condone the teachings. Just like we knew Osama was living with us.
2) When do Islamic followers (all countries) plan on doing something pro-active in helping rid their areas of radicals? IE,. point out the guy standing right next to them that they know damn well is a AK-47 carrying, IED planting, hide amongst the innocent coward.
A: Uhh ahh? Well you see, we want to practice our faith and do it with a reformed democratic society, however, if we "out" these cowards that are a C4 vest away from getting their 72 virgins, they might cut our heads off.
Yeah, you what, keep your back in the stone age mullahs, keep your sick interpretatives of the Koran, the Bible or anything for that matter, because you haven't fully evolved yet. You know, the head chopping thing. Keep your suppliers that put weapons in the hands of children so bored with their impoverished lives that they take them. Keep your requests for any more aid. All forms, money, food, equipment, etc. We need to fix our own house that is in the state it's in because we've been helping our closet friends for too long. Don't call us and we won't call you.
Finally, how did you get the "Sir" title in your name? Did the Queen of England knight you when she did Paul McCartney and Elton John?
The pakistani's could soon be showing off their nuclear weapons control rooms to the Mao Crowd in the near future. And like Reagan sent Rumsfeld to kiss Saddam's hand, we may be kissing something in islamicbad soon. Caution folks, you may get what you wish!
Cool. Pay taxes so the US can give billions to Pakistan to purchase Chinese fighter jets. How much monetary aid does China provide Pakistan each year? You can't spell "sucker" without "U" and "S."
Yeah. The world's ending. Not tomorrow, but we are well on our way.
The US's ending is not the world's ending.