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KHALED DESOUKI / AFP - Getty Images
An Egyptian Christian holds up a crucifix as he protests in front of the state television building in Cairo on Tuesday against recent attempts to trigger sectarian conflict in the country.
CAIRO – For a third day in a row, Egypt’s Coptic Christians demonstrated in front of the state TV building in central Cairo Tuesday against the military government they blame for failing to prevent the destruction of a church in weekend clashes.
For Coptic Christians, the attack was just the latest in a series of events that have made them feel increasingly vulnerable, threatened and worried about whether Egypt’s post-revolution future includes them.
Apparently, a romantic dispute sparked violent clashes on Saturday evening. Security officials said Monday that a Christian woman reportedly had an affair with a Muslim man. She then allegedly disappeared, which led the man to spread rumors that Christian clergy had snatched her and were holding her prisoner at Saint Mena Church in Imbaba, a working-class neighborhood of Cairo, because she converted to Islam.
Eyewitnesses say the clashes began when a group of Salafists, Muslims who practice Islamic fundamentalism, gathered outside the church. Although the parishioners denied the allegation that the woman was captive inside, the church came under attack and was burned, along with a neighboring church and some Christian-owned buildings. The clash left 12 dead (six Muslims, four Coptic Christians and two others); hundreds were injured and almost 200 arrested.
KHALED DESOUKI / AFP - Getty Images
Egyptian Christians protest in front of the state television building in Cairo on Tuesday, against recent attempts to trigger sectarian conflict in the country, as the government has vowed to use an "iron fist" to ensure national security after the weekend's deadly clashes in the Egyptian capital.
The Copts insist that the military and state security showed up late and did nothing to intervene. Although the government has transferred those arrested to military court for immediate trial and has decided to activate all laws criminalizing attacks on houses of worship, Copts feel the military government has not doing enough to protect their communities and churches.
'Islamists want to take power'
Egypt is 10 percent Christian, and Copts see the attacks targeting Christians since the revolution as an attempt by Islamists to terrorize them into leaving. Many believe Islamists want a country, and ultimately a region, free of non-Muslims. They fear that if Egyptians elect a predominantly Islamist parliament in September, the new government will widen the scope of Islamic law.
“The revolution was white, and now it has turned black because the Islamists want to take power and control the country,” said protester Marcelino Youssef said during Monday’s protests. “We are waiting to see which way the government will go, in the right direction or the wrong direction. Will the military government remain silent as usual? If they don’t take the right road, Egypt will be lost. There is no safety for Christians here, and the leaders move too slowly to solve the problems.”
Hany Abu Laila was in Saint Mena Church the night it was attacked. He denied reports that Copts fired on Muslims. “Is it logical that we would have a weapons store in a church?” he asked.
He said that dozens of army and security trucks arrived, but did the soldiers little more than observe as Muslim demonstrators hurled Molotov cocktails at the church.
Mohamed Muslemany / NBC News
Coptic Christians protest outside the state TV center in Cairo, Egypt on Monday.
Many among Egypt’s Christian community fear the future and are looking for a way out.
Ibram Anton, a senior merchandiser, has concerns for his family. “I am so afraid now about my future and my daughter’s future. Every Christian is so afraid for the future. I am now seriously finding how to get out of the country because the country will no longer be safe for us,” he said. “Daily, they are attacking us. In my opinion it will not be our country. We will not find jobs. Maybe everything for the Christians will become illegal, like going to church. They have already started to make Christians afraid.”
The military government has agreed to lift a ban on the return of Egyptian militants who fought in Afghanistan against the Russians. “If [the militants] come back, we are sure they will kill the Christians,” Anton said.
Since the revolution, he said, 90 percent of his friends have decided to emigrate, but none have succeeded so far.
But others vow to stand their ground.
“This is our land and we won’t ever leave it,” Youssef said at the protest. His friends nodded in agreement. “We don’t want to leave Egypt. This is our country and our history.”
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This proves how wacky those middle eastern countries are..these people protested side by side to get freedom..now freedom they have almost...but they are the enemy now in their own country!
So the story tells us the Coptic Christians fear the future. That's like telling us baloney fears the grinder. Anyone in Egypt that is not a Muslim is insane if they do not fear the future. Islamists are feverishly working to impose Islam over the entire country. Islam is the most prejudiced ideological system on the face of the earth. It is imbued with discrimination, bias and violence against anyone not a Muslim. Notice we're not advised that Jews in Egypt fear the future. That's because they have already been murdered and driven out of the country. There are none of them left, and they used to live there, to fear the future. Notice we're not advised that Hindus or Buddhists in Egypt fear the future. That's because there are none there. Any member of these religions would have to have a death wish to relocate to Egypt. The Islamist are setting out to impose Islam on the entire country. This will mean, no freedom of speech, press or religion. This will mean that the law will discriminate against anyone not a Muslim, i.e., no equality under the law. This will mean that women will be third class citizens with no rights to equal treatment with males. The 7th century is about to be reborn in Egypt.
Meanwhile..."America's Muslims fear the future"...
One eyed undertaker
oh brother! where art thou?
US census reports that anti-muslim hate crimes to be the lowest by far of all hate crimes in America. Also that they have decreased from previous years ( of course anti-jewish hate crimes are on the rise).
CAIR (the government protected un-indited co-conspirators of the Holy Land Trial) fiercely lobbys otherwise.
The citizens of the US given Islamic Attacks on her soil have killed thousands, that Islamic organizations have successfully been vindicated in Court to allow Sharia style justice (domestic rape), freedom of speech (silencing Christians in Dearborn, Mich) proves how tolerant and STUPID many of us are.
Ixor--
I'm interested.
(1) Three points in response to your statement regarding the prevalence of hate crimes against Arabs and Muslims.
(i) I'm not familiar with the numbers you cite. Is that by total occurence or measured per capita? Arabs make up a smaller percentage of our population, so if your number only deals with occurences then it really doesn't provide any insight.
(ii) So, assuming your numbers are per capita, the argument is now "since we commit more hate crimes against blacks and Jews than we do against Muslims, then those Muslims have nothing to fear? That's illogical enough not to require rebuttal.
(iii) Your statement ignores the three wars we are currently waging against Arab/Muslim countries. We've literally killed more than 100,000 over the last decade (by conservative estimates).
(2) The "shari'ah in our courts" argument is ridiculous. The court rulings related to this topic are twofold.
(i) The first set states that, as has been the case with Christianity's version of "shari'ah law" for the entire history of our country, separation of church and state applies equally to Islam or any other religion. This means we neither use shari'ah law in our court nor do we discriminate against Muslims for their beliefs.
(ii) The second set allows private parties to voluntarily enter contracts that will be arbitrated/etc. using shari'ah law. This is not surprising, as we've long held that parties can contract pretty much whatever they like so long as it's not illegal. This does not mean a court will apply shari'ah law. This means an anbitrator will use it.
(3) The "allowing shari'ah style justice" argument is ridiculous as well.
(i) "Domestic Rape": Our own laws in most states (which derive from British common law) permit domestic rape. Rape, in most jurisdictions, is defined as the unconsented to penetration of a woman by a man who is not her husband. If you think about it, this means a husband can never commit rape against his wife. This also means a woman can never rape a man. It also means a man can never rape a man. The only rape we recognize in most jurisdictions is man raping a woman who he is not married to.
So, as we see in practice, husbands might get brought up on battery or abuse charges if their actions are egregious enough, but in most jurisdictions, a husband cannot be convicted of raping his wife. Enter Lorena Bobbitt. This is American/British law, not shari'ah law. And, it largely derives from the Christian, not Muslim, understanding of marriage and sexual relations.
(ii) "Silencing Christians": This is nothing new. You people are habitual line-steppers. And habitual hypocrites regarding free speech. You want it in spades when you're advocating some extreme religious viewpoint, but when someone says something you don't like, you want the government to step in and stop them. Consider the abortion clinics where you people have been repeatedly banned and limited in your ability to be ridiculous zealots--a situation I believe is highly analogous to the MI instance where a bunch of quran burning rednecks were doing very similar things. I mean, by many people's definition of "hate crime", the protest itself was a hate crime.
Please distinguish the "right" of Christians to shout profane, crazy sounding religious things at women who have made a decision to have an abortion from the "right" of people to film pornography, to say derogatory things about the US during the pledge of allegiance, to burn the flag or to sag their pants at school. If anything, their actions hurt no one and the Christian's actions do (especially considering all the crazy, terrorist firebombings Christians have perpetraited against abortion clinics). The same can be said of the ridiculous, ignorant, hateful protests in MI.
Do I think Christians have a right to shout extremist hateful sounding things? Sure. Do they have more of a right to do so than the KKK? No, they must abide by the rules we must all abide by.
Islam has been trying to destroy all other religions for over 1400 years. This is nothing new.
Other religions, including Christians, have also done this in the past, but only Islam continues.
The irony is that the Coptic Christians are the last of the true Egyptians. Coptic was the final stage of the language spoken by the people of ancient Egypt since the Pharohs. It's sad to see how reviled this minority is in Egypt. This behavior is turning the rest of the world against Islam. Over here I still see mosques being freely built all over the country, but there is growing sentiments against it for reasons like this. Once they have a substantial minority by hyper population growth, they becaome aggressive toward other religions. How many Jewish are there in Saudia Arabia? At one time, before Islam, there were many. Coptic Christianity in Egypt is among the last victims of the cultural pariah. It was sad to see the recent attacks, killings and burnings at the church in Cairo. Alas, it is predictable.
Islam is the largest religion in the world. Are you saying that the world is going to turn on itself?
@wendywiesenthal - Islam might be the largest religion in the world if it weren't split up, (Sunni, Shiia, etc.), like the Christians and even the Jews. Even if it were a monolith, with about 1.5 billion, it still would not be the majority of people in the world.
If i were a Copt in Egypt, I would be worried to.
Actually maybe We should be more worried, the Mosques are going up all over America, and few dare challenge them.
Actually maybe we should be calling out to OUR God in prayer more.
Wait...so Islam is not the religion of peace? But my government keeps telling me that it is. I am so confused.
The path to a theocracy,is a path back a hundred years,the people of the ME need to learn tolerance of others and evolve into the 21rst century. This does not look good at the moment,time will tell. They need to take account of all the other diverse countries that live in peace,and should follow suit.Prejudice,banishment,intolerance,will only lead to their eventual destruction,please Egypt...
Evolve Already!!!
It hasn't looked good for 1400 years. Islam & the Koran have built in fail safes against challenging is authority and its inherant un-edit-ability. The Koran is straight from g-d via an infallible angel and a perfect prophet. Perfect makes perfect and a mortal cannot edit G-d. Indeed one can't not question any doctrine of the koran as it prescribes death to those who do so. Just ask Salomon Rushdie ....Thus "studying" the Koran means merely "memorizing" it in Arabic. ...evan if you cannot understand a word of Arabic. You darn well better be careful about the questions you ask.
Indeed the Muslim dominated UN has railroaded a resolution to ban criticism of any religion
Don't hold your breath for a muslim Martin Luther to come along....
Functionally speaking, Moderate muslims are (at thier peril) non-practicing muslims.
Coral I have pointed this out to you in other strings; good useful dhimmi that you that are, before to no avail.
So sad, both sides are Egyptians who were thrilled to have thrown off the yoke of repression for an opportunity at being able to remake their government to allow real freedom. In less than 3 months the fanaticism of the Islamist extremists have started their rants against their fellow Egyptians, stirring up the masses, and looking to destroy the Coptic Christian presence in Egypt. If there are any other minorities be aware you may be next. It doesn't matter if your religion predates the Muslims by 900 years, or if your credentials are 100% Egyptian. Islam as it is practiced there today tolerates nothing but strict adherence to its particular interpretation. There was so much hope, and now so sad.
the burning of the Church was a satanic act. But actually the killings and abuductions of Christians who convert to islam had happened many times in Egypt.
Heres a story that MSNBC would never report
Three Coptic brothers accused of killing sister, her husband and child for converting to Islam
http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/1/64/10609/Egypt/Politics-/Three-Coptic-brothers-accused-of-killing-sister,-h.aspx
siryes -- Christianity does not preclude anyone from leaving the faith. They leave the faith all the time with impunity, i.e., with no violence being done to them for doing so. Islam , on the other hand, requires that anyone who becomes a Muslim must be murdered if he leaves the faith, by other Muslims. Hence, if a Christian did what you describe he was not following the tenants of his faith. But if a Muslim murders a former Muslim, then he is following the requirements of his faith and is honored by the Ummah, i.e., the Muslim community. Huge difference.
i provided a link to the strory. You provided your opinion.
ok three brothers are crazy ALL MUSLUMS ARE CRAZY YOU IDIOT
still "your opinion". i provided you with the link to my story without calling you names.
Siryes -- You provided the link. I provided you the facts about the two religions view of those that chose to leave. Muhammad requires Muslims to murder those who leave the religion; Christ requires Christians to love those who leave. Try as you might, you can't change this truth. And you know it's not an opinion. Just read the Koran and the Bible.
I have always heard that you attract more bees with honey than vinegar. I may not be as well spoken as some of the rest of you, but I firmly believe in tolerance. You can love someone but hate what they do. Peace, love, and honesty win you over because you want to do something, because you coose to do something, not because you are forced to do something out of fear of death. I am not going to say that any one religion is more tolerant or more violent. I am saying i just don't understand why there has to be so much hate and violence. Why can't we agree to disagree, stop being do greedy, be tolerant, coexist, things like that. Maybe, I'm an idealist... but i don't see anything wrong with that.
No word from our President or other leaders in the US regarding this persecution of Christians. Same silence maintained when civilians (including Americans) were beheaded by militant Muslims. But, boy, how verbose were they with concern about a nut-case burning a Koran or prison guards who forced terrorist prisoners into degrading poses.
The bias is so blatant it is embarrassing.
The goal of Islam is to be the ONLY religion on earth. They will kill anyone they find to accomplish this. So why not start at home? Soon it will be Europe and then the Americas.
thats why American military bases are all over the middle east. Right? to help the Muslims spread their religion.
@ siryes;Umm No,to tamp the flames of terrorism.
like the terrorist attack against iraq?
This is a kick in the face of those who believed, cheered and supported the "revolution" in Egypt, naively believing that democracy and freedom will follow. This is what we should expect to happen after every "revolution" in the arab countries - a sharp turn to radicalism, intolerance and violence.
Your comments prove how hypocritical you all are. Grouping all middle-easterners with a group fanatics. Just admit you're as hateful as a terrorist when it comes to other religions, you may not go as far as they do (thank God), but you're just as bad. Remember Christ said to love your enemy and to pray for him. I sure hope that when you all die, and you all will, your comments here won't come back to bite you in the a$$.
the truth hurts doesnt it
While this looks bad now,it is not time for conclusion. Egypt has become more secular over the years. The dust still has not settled from the revolution. Do not let a couple of Imams inciting their people to riot against Christians, as the whole choice of Egypt. This "camilia affair"is over a year old,and the violence stems from this,as the Imams use this for fueling the fire,figuratively,and litterally. Also could be revenge for the coptics attacking the Imams. The whole story is fabricated,and no true evidence of kidnapping has been found,as authorities have investigated this.
Do not fear a take over of Islam anywhere other than the ME,there are many more converts from Islam to Christianity,than the other way around.in the states and Euroupe,and Africa. The talk of Islam being the fastest growing religion is a myth,even they will admit this. Hopefully "secular" heads will prevail.lol
Are you the same person posting the #4? Looking at the same picture and describing it in two different ways? Interesting.
No that is a different Coral Taxi,Ido not know who he is,sounds like a real intelligent guy though.lol
When it comes to matters of Islam and the ME,there are many different pictures to paint,post 11 was meant to inform of what was behind the attacks,and to show the people are not taking this up on their own they are being incited to violence by Imams seeking revenge on the coptics,for their attacks.
Second paragraph goes to those thinking Islamist are going to dominate the world,lol,and hoping religion is not the besis of their(Egypt's) new government. Get It now Fari?
Turks of Turkey Genocide (1900's) of the Armenia's, who were the First To become CHRISTIANS around 300ad.
The 196,000 Coptic Catholics are not going to get any help from anyone. Just look at the christians is southern Sudan. They have been murdered and oppressed by the Islamic Khartoum government for more than a decade. Catholics have been killed in Pakistan, and Iraq. The upcoming elections in Egypt will put the muslin brotherhood in control, and the Coptics will have no future in Egypt.
Image of the Crescent and the Cross together is a beautiful picture began in the 1936 revolution of peaceful civil and repeated in the civilian pictures in 1956 at the dome of Al-Azhar and repeated in Tahrir Square in the revolution of January 25, For more than seventy years, and repeated in the military wars as a one blood for every Egyptian Muslim and Christian in four wars in 1948 - 1956-1967 --1973 in the strongest sense of national belonging and citizenship
so the most important causes of movement of an Christian women to Islam is getting a divorce to be recognized by the State .
so the Egyptian Christians themselves are the ones who most Seeking to change and Develop the rule of their church, as did Christians in the Western societies
therefore we can not find one single Christian girl not married has converted to Islam without her pressing social interest to have a divorce after married and this had no effect on citizenship and belonging
For this reason international writer Naguib Mahfouz the winner of the Nobel Prize in literature did not forget to show that the spectacle of the cross with a crescent on the first revolution of civil peace in the Middle East in 1936 against the British military Christian occupation and this is what is had done by all the people of Egypt against Military occupation of the Islamic Ottoman Empire and in the two images of the military occupation of opposite to each other did not change the meaning of citizenship and the meaning of national loyalty to the land of Egypt and the meaning of independence of the national will and the meaning of the modern state for every one and this is the future
Believe in the Ressurection. All those who have passed away will come back to life and face judgement. Those who are evil will join the devil in his everlasting kingdom of fire. Those who are good and honest and fear God will join Him in His everlasting Kingdom that will be established on earth. Egypt is one of several countries destined for total destruction in the next war. There are several others that are mentioned in the Bible. But who reads the Bible?? The Big Day will come like a thief. Sorry for those who kill people IN THE NAME OF GOD AND BELIEVE THEY ARE MARTYRS DOING GOD A FAVOR.
The way to counter people who organize their lives around fairy tales that are thousands of years old and have no foundation in the real world is not with even older fairy tales. We need to help all who labor under ancient delusions to step out of the shadow of stultifying mythologies and join the modern world. The "my God can kick your God's ass" approach is hardly helpful.
The new Egyptian dictatorship is permitting the ethnic cleansing of Christians from Egypt just like the previous dictatorship. The regime will allow Islamic extremists to kill as many Christians as they want and to drive the rest out of Egypt. Radical Islam is on a crusade for world domination and to end all religions other than their perverted version of Islam. Egypt is a critical front in Islam's war of aggression against humanity. Civilization can and must defeat radical Islam or our way of life will is doomed.
Whoever would have thought that after we threw Mubarak under the bus that radical Islamics would begin murdering Christians. Certainly not our media, or our government. Maybe this is just an expression of the free will of the people now that they have won democracy in the streets.
when is the world going to wake up this is world war 3 its normal people against islam it doesnt matter how many of them there are they MUST be destroyed the reason there is so many is that there is so many uneducated people out there islam is of the devil we must wait for trip to meca then bomb meca
Take comfort my Egyptian brothers. Read Isaiah 19:15-25. Both Christians and Muslism will unite believing Allah lil Jacob, Ebrahim, Isaac. Salaat, salaat, shufta Esa, kulu shufta ala Esa...kalem..."ana hubbik, ana hubbik," sawa, sawa Esa. Wallah...Believe my Egyptian brothers stay faithful to Jesus and our God. Do not give into hate, God blessed both houses...our God loves the Muslims as well. Bissmilallah Egypt, kulu lil Egypt! Allah lil Jacob, Ebrahim, Isaac...moo allah lil Muhammad. Ishmali, Ana kataba shuwayah Arabi.
I don't understand why you think MSNBC would not report this story. It seems like a perfect story for them. Instead, it seems like a story that Fox News would never report.
get ready italy for 10 million more refugees!!!
The path for Egypt, like the rest of the world, is to step away from all forms of dogma, Christian and Muslim, and embrace a fact based world view. I know that it is not going to happen, but unless we do the intolerance and hate for everyone not of your faith community that is the core of all religions will continue to make the world a very dangerous place.
I think you might see a large migration of Coptic Christians migrating to Israel. They both have a common enemy and if they join together they may be able to withstand the Muslim onslaught. Kindest Regards Zulu2