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Subscribe to RSSNBC News’ Stephanie Gosk has been reporting all week from Abbottabad, Pakistan, the city where Osama bin Laden was killed by U.S. forces in a secret raid. In a phone interview Friday, she responded to questions about the town and the local reaction to bin Laden’s death and the revelation that he lived there for years.
What is the reaction to bin Laden’s death in Abbottabad?
We’ve been here all week and have been able to get quite close to bin Laden’s former compound – right outside the walls. And it’s not just the media who are interested, but also the people who live in this town.
What is most interesting is how few people actually believe bin Laden was killed in that house or that he even lived there at all.
It will be interesting over the next few days to see what their reaction is to the news that al-Qaida has put a statement online confirming that bin Laden was killed and calling on Muslims around the world to rise up and avenge his death.
Is there really still that much doubt about Bin Laden even living there?
Well, this country has a strong tradition of conspiracy theories. People here don’t generally believe anything that officials tell them. So it’s not entirely surprising that they aren’t going to believe reports coming out of the White House.
What’s interesting is the reasons why they think the White House is doing this. They will say things like, “Well, Obama wants to be re-elected in the next election, so this was really just a PR stunt.” One person that we spoke to the other day referred back to the Monica Lewinsky scandal and how things at that time seemed to be done to deflect criticism around the world. So they will go out of their way to try to fabricate these elaborate conspiracies as opposed to believing what officials tell them.
What would it take for them to believe that he was killed?
Well, that was always my next question: What would it take for you to believe he was actually killed by U.S. Navy SEALs in that house? I asked if a photo would do it, and they said, “No, no, of course not. You can doctor a photo.” When I asked about video, they said, “No, you can doctor that, too.” They simply will not believe that he was killed.
With al-Qaida’s statement coming out, it will be interesting to see if people believe it now. But they may come back and say this is just another ploy as well.
Is Abbottabad really a well-heeled town? Have you seen the town’s alleged golf course?
We didn’t get a chance to check out the golf course. But we did get a sense of what daily life is like.
Despite all the international media coverage, there were a lot of people in this town who just got on with their lives.
In Pakistan, this is a place that people retreat to. It’s up in the mountains, so there is a cool breeze. It’s a good place to escape the hustle-bustle of Islamabad and the heat – so some people have second homes here. There are hotels – it’s just a pretty little town.
For the people who actually believe that bin Laden was living here amongst them and was killed here, they are shocked that it could happen in their midst. It’s a place that is known not to have much of a radical element. And in Pakistan over the last few years, there are very few places where you can say that.
We are hearing that the CIA had a safe house there, do the neighbors say that they noticed anything?
We haven’t heard from anybody that they were aware of monitoring or intelligence gathering on the ground. There is nothing that led them to any suspicions of that.
But quite honestly there was nothing to make them suspicious of the house down the road. Now people will say that it had high walls and barbed wire – which is a little unusual. And they didn’t see the women come out of the house – but that’s fairly typical. There are plenty of families where women don’t leave the house – so that wasn’t all that strange. People here didn’t really notice anything that completely out of the ordinary.
That’s really the big question: What did they know? And with that military complex down the road, how did they not know that bin Laden was in their midst?
Does that suspicion of officials and the U.S. lend itself to suspicions about the Pakistani military, too? That they had some hand in hiding bin Laden?
No, I don’t think they are suspicious of the military. What we have heard – almost across the board – is criticism of the civilian government and the fact that they are seen as puppets of the United States.
There is also embarrassment among the Pakistani military that this raid took place at all. That U.S. Navy SEALs snuck in under their radar, hugging the mountainous terrain, killed bin Laden and then left without them ever knowing it happened until they received a phone call from U.S. officials.
That has embarrassed and angered the military in this country – and the people themselves.
Where there any protests there today?
There was a small protest in Abbottabad. There were maybe 400-500 people and it was organized by a radical Islamic group. It was all men. This is a town of 100,000 people – so it wasn’t really that big.
But their message was a familiar one that we have heard all over the country over and over: that their sovereignty was violated by this raid and that President Asif Ali Zardari is a puppet of the U.S.
Is there any sense of relief that bin Laden is gone?
I think there is some relief here in Abbottabad and across the country as well. Because over the last couple of years al-Qaida has turned its attention to Pakistan and conducted a number of attacks – including deadly suicide attacks in all of Pakistan’s major cities.
So people’s tolerance of al-Qaida and their violence has really diminished. So there is real anger there over the deaths in this country and I think that killing bin Laden will bring people some relief. But I think they really want the attacks to stop.
Related links: From NBC's Richard Engel: Bin Laden was a 'compassionate martyr' and Hitler loved music...
Leave a Comment:
Don't believe.
I think they refuse to admit that they knew because then they might be accused of a crime, like aiding a known Terrorist.
That's always the tactic for third world country residences as their defense to play dumb.
Just play dumb and you'll get away with anything.
That happens in the US all the time too and doesn't matter the neighborhood.
Praise u Phillip, Thank God were all not idiots, and I agree 100%, something is defintely fishy and for those of u who think were crazy, why does the story keep changing all these little details are coming out and some of them are even being turned around from the way they were originally spoken about. OOOOPPPPPPSSSSSS!!!!!
here are some of the misconstured statements:
At 1st he was kiled on the ground level not the3rd floor
no internet, or other luxuries of technology,BUT
100 something flashdrives, 50 something hard drives and blah blah blah
in fact there was satelite tv and satelite recievers on the roof of the complex
I live in Dows Iowa Population under 800 people, we are a small town
abbottabad population is around 100,000 thats not a small town
we've gone from 1 wife to 3 in less then a week and a crap load of kids too
I wonder do u think we were smart enough to check and see if there were tunnels built under this compound
AND FINALLY I UNDERSTAND THAT WE HAVE TO MAINTAIN A CERTAIN RELATIONSHIP WITH THIS COUNTRY BUT ANYONE WHO BELIEVES THAT PAKISTAN DID NOT KNOW HE WAS THERE BLATANLY YOUR A FOOL THEY KNEW, AND TO OUR U.S. GOVERNMENT WE KNOW WHAT WERE CAPABLE OF: WERE STRONG COURAGEOUS PROUD AND INTELLIGENT TO THE MAX BUT WE DON'T HAVE TO BE STINKING LIARS PRESIDENT OBAMA I VOTED FOR U NOT BECAUSE OF UR POLITICS BUT FOR OTHER REASONS THEY WE WON'T DISCUSS HERE I BEG BEG BEG BEG BEG U PLEASE PROVE TO THE WORLD THAT WE DID THIS IS WAS DONE THE WAY IT IS BEING SAID TO BE DONE AND THAT IT HAPPENED ON MAY 1ST 2011. MAYBE IT IS ALL ABOUT POLITICS TO SOME EXAMPLE THE WHITE HOUSE BUT TO AMERICANS, THIS COUNTRY IS OUR PRIDE OUR MILITARY IS OUR PRIDE OUR CHILDREN OUR FUTURE. GIVE US BACK OUR BACKBONE FOR GOD SAKE.
Phillip, thank you. I was gonna post close, but 5 doc's or 7 doesn't matter. The world still may never know exactly for sure.
You may believe it. Just look around your own city.
If you reside in the California, for example, then you can confirm that it is in fact possible to live in a neighborhood for years and yet, never formally know your neighbors. Just wave to them on holidays, as you pull the Cadillac into your garage. And that's about it.
Yea, sure he's probably a guest at the White house ... LOL LOL LOL People just don't amaze me anymore ....
Think about the other side. The US cannot state that we still have his body as it would be an 'outrage' and provoke other mentally stable people into blowing themselves up in public places. I'd be shocked if anything other than a bag with a blow up doll filled with sand was dumped off the carrier into the ocean. There's no 'proof' of anything if you think about it - so you either believe he's dead or you don't... it's your choice. I'd say the statements from the rest of his organization saying he's now a martyr are all the proof we're going to get. Good riddance, and we should strike quickly against any number 2 and 3 and 4 that pop up and attempt to sway youth into the path of self destruction.
Philip, you're giving UBL way too much respect. When he was busted, he was a broken man, destitute and trapped in a dump, even his body guards had abandoned him. Why should the US jump thru all kinds of hoops to try to convince all those wacko conspiracy kooks that he was dead. Those kooks wouldn't believe it if you dropped UBL's bloody corpse right on their front porch. They'd just say, "oh, that's a fake corpse dressed up to look like UBL".
No sense wasting time on the kooks or on UBL. He was nothing more than a punk mass murderer who didn't deserve any more respect than a few words before being dumped into the sea along with the ship's smelly trash.
Wally; The las I heard Osama Bin Laden came from a very wealthy Saudi family and had money scattered around the globe. So I doubt he was destitute...
99% of his funds were either frozen or his family took them away when he was disowned. Doesn't change the fact that this story just keeps getting more and more far fetched. Now people are blatantly telling the media he never lived there. Not we didn't know......he never lived there. This keeps getting wierder and wierder.
Wow!! These Pakistan people sound just like the right wing nuts on here.
Show the pictures?? Well pictures can be doctored so that won't prove it.
Show DNA?? Well that never convicted OJ Simpson so that won't work.
Show the body?? Well it could be a body double so that won't prove OBL is dead.
Al-Qaida released a report that bin Laden is dead and ask for revenge? Nope, just a smoke screen so people will stop looking for him.
Conclusion? Nothing would convince the right wing nuts that OBL was dead short of a Republican president being in power when it happened. Then the story would be different. Sensible Republicans that have seen the pictures are convinced he's dead. And then there are the others.
Conflicting stories coming out is normal. Anyone with a memory should recall all the different stories that surfaced when Pat Tillman was shot in Afghanistan. People talk and give misinformation to reporters and it matters not whether it's Democrat or Republican. If it's the party you don't like it's a lie. If it's the party you like, it was a mistake. That's just the way it is.
Why is it if we don't just take Obama and Al-Qaeda's word for it, we're "right wing nuts"? Because god knows neither have ever lied or used misinformation for thier own gain. Keep those blinders on tight, and keep shouting down the blasphemers that would dare speak against your Obamessiah.
Every time obama says he id going to do something, the opposite happens.
Why should this be any different than the closure of Guantanamo, withdrawing all troops from Iraq by 2011, shovel ready projects, ending Bush Tax Cuts, etc.
Don';t know if this is true or not but I did read that the U.S. was giving Pakistan one billion (?) a year to help fight terrorism and to find BL. If this is true, why would any of them turn in Ossy for 25 mil when their country is getting all that other loot? Anyone know anything about that billion $?
I love it...They remind me of an episode of "Hogans Heroes" and Sgt Schultz..."I know nuting, I see nuting"...those people are a joke.
Are these Pakistanis that dumb?
It is not stupid to doubt official pronoucements, or to not be aware of everything going on in a town (or city) of 100,000 people.
In this country (the U.S.), there are those who never believe the Federal Government, especially when somebody they don't like is in office.
...and sometimes the suspicion is justified. In this country we had the Gulf of Tonkin incident, which never happened, but was used to justify our commitment of ground troops in Vietnam.
...and for all you really know, White Bulger could be living a couple of blocks from your house. Like Osama bin Laden, he is adept at avoiding surveilance and he has money.
Are the Pakistanis that dumb?
You bet'cha [as Palin would say]!!!
Considering that we have a segment of our society that has yet to believe that President Obama is a natural US born citizen, it's not much of a stretch. Besides, hiding "in plain site" is probably the safest way to go....because no one will look closely!
Sarah, I'm not sure 'dumb' is the right word. I'd vote for 'ignorant'. Ignorance is a treatable condition - all it takes is education and these people aren't all that educated. And those that are educated are often (and usually?) educated in the madrassas (mosque schools) - by people only one step above them in literacy and education, but strong in their religiosity.
Yes, these people are that ignorant.
Sarah...yes! it tends to be the biggest reason for the situation they are in. The average education is maybe 6th grade for boys and around basic third grade reading for girls. Those familys with a little money educate their children further, but the majority of the population are basically ignorant labor. This includes Afghanistan and most of southern Russia. Anyone with half a brain spouting religious babble is considered a leader-no common sense required. Having lived in the region in the 70's with only a high school education I was amazed at some of the things I saw. Imagine life in the 16th century and add electricity.
Palin Doug? of all the people in the world you quote Palin?
Governments around the world lie to their people as a matter of course. The US has been no exception. Some people won't believe anything and in the digital age photos and videos don't mean a whole lot.
It is no wonder that he was able to live there undetected for years.
Under regimes and living conditions such as Pakistan and Afghanistan, the people learn not to ask questions about things that don't put food on their table.
Really, that's hilarious. They are just "Deathers" too, then!
I guess the trucks that built the compound didn't have the "Bin Laden Construction, SA" signs on the doors, then.
Hey JC from IA
Everybody knows that he's been hiding out with Elvis in a beachfront shack near Friday Harbor on San Juan Island in Washington State. There is no street address, just Rural Route number. I got this information from the Harbormaster - a great guy - he was sworn to secrecy, but after a dozen beers or so in a local tavern he loosened up a bit. Of course, I had to keep pace with him, so I may not have got it all down right.
LOL!
The Harbor Master is a harsh mistress!
Aarrrrrgghh!
That is exactly why he was able to hide. Build a house, have some normal looking average guys be the front for it. Build high walls so you can walk around inside the compound. Dont let anyone in. No need for security guards, they will only draw attention.
This compound was probably no different than hundreds of others in that part of the country. Compounds owned by government officials, military leaders, rich people. So just because you see a compound like that, you do not think that OBL is living there.
There is really no reason for the Pakistani government to have known he was there. It would have actually been more dangerous for him if anyone outside of the two guys living there knew he was there.
Hey JC from IA
President Obama has just renamed the martini. It is now the 'bin Laden' - two shots and a splash.
However, in the interests of national security they are not going to reveal which kind of gin [Tanqueray would be my guess] or whose dry vermouth [French or Italian]. But the recipe is about right, and also about right for lots of those no-good-nicks on the CIA's schmidt list.
Muslims never cease to amaze me how illogical and just plain ignorant they are. You get a bunch of monkeys banging away on typewriters and the chance of them creating more sense and logic would be much greater. No wonder as a culture they have achieved practically nothing in the past 100 years. They live in the 7th century--and thats right where they belong.
ORB,
Now that's funny ..... :-)
They're also demanding to see the long form of Obama's birth certificate.
If you actually believe the US government killed Osama Ben Dead for years could you send me your address? I have a beautiful bridge that I'm sure you'd love to buy.
Dear Ken...first, that is a worn out cliche. Second, Al Qaeda seems to believe we got him. They should know where he was. You are just making yourself pathetic. I remember Saudi people talking after 9/11. They said that it was a made up plot, and the the Jews really brought down the towers. They even started a rumor that all Jewish people left the building just before the strikes. They wanted desperately to believe it. Just like you want to believe your own little fairy tale.
Just curious, Ken, in this scenario, how is it that AQ picked just this moment to announce OBL's death, then? Are they in cahoots with the US government? Why?
Forget about the long form of Obama's birth certificate! I want to see the long form of Osama's death certificate.
Al Qaeda could always be using this as a motivational tactic. Just because the U.S. MAY have made this whole thing up, doesn't mean that Al Qaeda wouldn't stoop to the level to use it to make Osama a martyr.
Posting on the Internet that reveals the real truth, "So, I have some pictures of some dead aliens and their crash site wreckage, I would like to show them to you but I decided I won't, and I threw the wreckage and the dead aliens in the deepest part of the ocean to keep others from seeing it. Who wants a beer?" --- Brian Mahoney.
Reply that further reveals the real truth, "I would like to have a beer with you but as I am a graphic designer I heard they have an opening at the White House. Seems the last guy couldn't figure out Adobe Illustrator or something. I'm putting together a portfolio of "head" shots... if you know what I mean." --- Ken D. Webber
Osama Ben DEAD since 2001 of kidney failure. Obama IS Pinnochio.
Sad. Just sad.
kenwebber--And ignorant people like you are at the root of what is wrong with this country, but a democracy must suffer its fools along with the independent, educated thinkers.
Ken I have a photo of a smart bagger eating cheetos, now if that wont blow your mind.
And some are calling the Pakistanis dumb? Wow...how embarrassing that some American's are so...uneducated.
It was the last place anyone would look for him which made it the perfect place. While everyone was looking for a hidden mountain site he was probably laughing at us from his house knowing no one would ever think he'd be in such a place. He was rotten and I hope he really is gone but he wasn't stupid.
A lot of these people have sympathetic ties to al Qaida and won't admit to the American news media that they believe he lived there. To say that would be to admit that they knew.
Pretty amazing the blind trust that people have in their government. The government always tells the truth, always has the people's best interest in mind and would never, never think of committing murder or taking someone else's property for the sake of expediency or political benefit. I just can't fathom something like that happening in America!
Are you kidding me?! I suppose everyone forgets about that helicopter that was blown up. Or, did the SEALS have stealth explosives too? Frankly, due to old reports that bin Laden died in a hospital years ago, I don't think the raid even happened, or if it did, it happened somewhere else. I think it's just another elaborate ruse by Obama to distract us from our real problem, which is his total incompetence. And, for all you liberals, I don't see Clinton or Bush as being any better. They were all incompetent.
Merrill....I would hate to live in your head. You are truly certifiable!
So Merrill, you don't think the SEAL raid even happened? How did a top secret piece of a US helicopter get there? Did we just fly into a sovereign countries borders and feel like dropping a piece of one of our top secret helicopters and then leave their airspace?? Get a life!!!
Oh I don't doubt that there was a raid, but I do doubt that Usama was there. They lost a multi-million dollar aircraft on a psy op mission that failed. Let's see, an unusual burial at sea - unprecedented; large gap in helmet video recording - unexplainable; lack of any bin Laden video footage for years - curious; really confused White House administration stories -spurious; decision not to release photo of dead man - suspicious. Obama staging a photo op meeting at ground zero with a few invited people after releasing a phony forged birth certificate...draw your own conclusion. Need I go on???
No, you need not go on. You've proved your ignorance.
There were too many people involved with this affair for it to have been a scam, Glen Beck not withstanding. If it were a sham, someone would squeal, someone, someone.
I am glad to see that the more stupid of posters on Newsvine have not been embarassed to expose themselves.
I simply cannot believe that people actually have these beliefs. I sometimes think they are just messing with our heads to see what kind of reply they will get. Can one really be that ignorant? We didn't really land on the moon. 9/ll was a conspiracy. We didn't kill OBL. Unbelieveable!
Kaara, did you know that 75% of the world does not believe we landed on the moon?
So, Pakistanis are outraged about a raid that they don't believe actually happened to kill a person who was never there to begin with.
Pakistanis are not outraged that Osama was killed in raid (if it is true). They are more concerned about the violation of their boundries. How would you like some other country's aircrafts bombing and killing people in your country. By the way Osama was on Dylysis in 1999 a news confirmed by the same media. Any docctor would tell that a person with failed kidneys will not last this long. Do you see people protesting on Osama's death except a few hundred ignorant mullas.
I honestly can't believe that so many people commenting here either don't believe Osama bin Laden is dead or that the SEAL raid didn't take plase at all! How many people in Washington DC are in on this supposed conspiracy, is everyone in DC that good of a liar to keep the ;truth' hidden?? This is ridiculous! Of course the SEAL raid took place in Pakistan, even the Pakistanis acknowledge that! Of course bin Laden is dead and was killed during THIS raid and has not been frozen for years as some idiots may think!
Thanks to our military, all of them, and especially to SEAL Team 6, and thanks to our President Obama for authorizing this daring mission inside a sovereign nations borders!!!! This is something all Americans should be glad about and not diminish with moronic 'theories'. I think that too many people might be too into video games, or TV, or movies, and may have lost their sense of reality!!
its not that people have lost their sense of reality, last Sunday I went to bed right after the President made his speech about OBL being killed, and I am a healthy sane person, when I woke up Monday morning and heard that the body had already been dumped at sea 1st thing that went through my thoughts was WTF. We couldn't have screwed that up any better. Everything that the Government feeds us and the media u **ckers aren't getting off the hook here either, thats why everyones sense of reality is gone, its been sucked out of the entire world by government, political, and media BS.
N im not attacking anyone in these post, its just so humiliating,exhausting, and ridiculous that this is where we stand read these post were not united were further from that then weve ever been, which basically means their winning whoever they r. By the time the rest of the world gets done with us (here comes another cliche)we won't have a bucket to piss in or a window to throw it out of. I guarantee more then half of the US people dont even know or remember the real reasons all this is going on and they don't know really realistically wht this country is in such BAD shape right now.
FDR didn't keep Truman posted on anything. When Truman assumed office he was completely in the dark as to what was going on in the war. It's because of the relationship between FDR and Truman that things changed and now the Vice President is kept abrest of all that is happening.
US is a powerful country visa viz pakistan.It can take away Reymond Davis the man responsible for three murders and kill Osama Ben Laden Supposedly responsoble for 9/11.Generals run the foreign policy.poor Asif zardari was catapulted to the high office in the aftermath of BeNazeers assasination.He is insignificant--puppet or no puppet is is immaterial.The Generals lost East pakistan<had the Prime minister z a bhutto assasinated through the judiary.it is an irony the murderers had an innocent man proved murderer.
I don't understand - they don't believe he lived there, but they have a sense of relief he's gone? How do they think the whole thing went down?
Dont try to understand the reasoning of subhumans
Kennedy is still alive and partys with Jim Morrisson and Jmi Hendrex every weekend at the desert location where they constructed a replica of that Brady Bunch house in Pakiland and then put some old chopper parts by it then took pictures of it and doctered them by using the same middle eastern actors that faked 911.
Give me a break
Of course they are not going to agree he was killed there..look at that town..looks likes an American dump ( landfill with shacks) and they call that a wealthy town in Pakistan (guess so)?
The POS is DEAD..killed in the country where we been paying BILLIONS of dollars to find his butt!..No brainer there what Pakistan was doing..hiding the POS and collecting the $$$$ to find him...could of went on forever! THANK YOU SEALS AND OBAMA.
What would you expect out of a bunch of ignorant backwards thinking peasants? They will believe whatever liar says the lies they most want to hear. About like the Dumbocrats and Republicants here in this country.
Its quite the psychological phenomenon that they don't want to believe he was there. It's like when the concentration camps were liberated, the townsfolk around them refused to believe they existed as well. So they were taken to bury bodies.
It really does not matter me what the people of the town of Abbottabad think. For those that lost loved ones due to the attacks on 9/11, it's an important event. I hope the the capture and death of Bin Laden allows them some emotional closure. Greving the loss of a loved one is a very personal event. For some the only empathy that helps at all is silence and seeing those responsible brought to account.
All this proves is that these people are so self absorbed that they do not know what is (was) going on right under their noses. When they are told lies about terrorists by their own government -- a government that appears to support and supply terrorists -- they believe the lies, rather than questioning them. After all, won't Allah protect them from danger? Danger like American drones shooting at terrorists they don't even believe are in their country? The Pakistanis are clueless about what is really happening around them, and it is because they refuse to believe their government would lie to them. Too bad for them. What they believe does not matter to anyone but their neighbors. There's a war going on and they refuse to participate.
Your first 2 sentences sound like you are referring to our people and government. But then I read the rest. Just another blind leading the blind.
I don't care what they think. His dead is no longer important anymore because the materials that we collected are the most important. They'll help us catch some more murderers.
what's so stupid is that the Al-Queda say that "it's paradise to be martyred" and to die for one's beliefs, but now they want to "avenge his death." What's it gonna be you goons????
Goons that believe one thing and live another are goons!
i like the phoney birth certificate. if you looked at it, it was never stamped, i don't care if it was copied it gets stamp with a seal. i have a wallet size stamped with a seal. my friends birth cert. from hawaii is in color. obama's looks like a title of a car. and the raid, yep a little to quik to get rid of the body. these men didn't even knopw what was going on till they got there, i already read 4 different stories and i get yelled at from my niece which is a mmsgt in the usaf. and said he's dead. okthen why did washington change the story. 2 times from the whithouse reporter. it smells like something obama might due. osama might be dead but no one will know except osama and the seals.
Ah, some local yokals still don't believe Osama bin Laid-down lived there. And with many women being virtual prisoners in the home. they never got to rub shoulders with Osama's wife, who told Pakistani authorities that both had lived there since 2005.
Michael, the average rural Pakistani woman writes better English than you do. Maybe you wowuld do better in Urdu. If you thinking is as clear as your prose, nobody will condemn you for being stupid.
@ cinclodesfuscus: pot, kettle, black?