I didnt read in this article that the military is standing with the people. What I read was that they will not use force to silence the protestors.

The Protestors - PEACEFULLY - march in the streets demanding Mubarak steps down.

Mubarak, tells the army to stand down - but refuses to step down.

Then what? It feels like we've got a staring contest going here - in which, the first one to blink is the first one to use force/violence to acquire what they want. Either the protestors in removing Mubarak, or Mubarak in removing the protestors.

Please repost with the inclusion of verifiable evidence for your statements Fezzy Bear. I want to be as informed and educated as you.

If the military does not take sides, things may actually be looking positive for an outcome similar to what occurred in Turkey. Stay tuned.

Mubarak has been a faithful ally during times when doing so was probably not popular in his corner of the world, and arguably dangerous. We owe something for that loyalty, and what we owe is making darn sure these radical rabble-rousers get the trouncing they deserve.

Look, here's the problem with our foreign policy in the middle east in general, and against radical islamic extremists in particular. We don't think like them ("know your enemy"? Not so much), we don't surprise them (the difference between imagination and insanity is only crazy people keep trying the same approach and expecting different results), and we're not honest (what matters is the standard of living in our country, not theirs. We just don't have the guts to say it).

The answer? Peace through strength. I don't mean half-hearted amateur acts like Iraq or Afganistan (clarifying point: I fully - FULLY - support our fine men and women in the armed services. It is the poor choices of their senior leaders that make success impossible and put our troops at risk. Along with our country and our way of life). What I mean, is pre-modern era total war. I mean decimation. I mean showing these people who only understand strength, what real strength is all about. They seem compelled to meet Allah, I say it's our job to arrange the meeting. Roll in, wipe them out except for a couple, bury them with pigs (like Pershing did in the Philippines), and send the couple survivors out to tell the rest what happens when you mess with U.S. Barbaric? Sure. Think it'd inspire more problems? Maybe in the short run, but if we hunt the problem-makers down and run them through an adult-size bass-o-matic, that'd end pretty quick too. These people get "the bigger shark in the water" analogy. We need to put away our politically correct, mamby-pamby, all bark, some whimper and never bite attitude and do what ought to be done. Period.

This is very similar to the Philippine "People Power" revolution in February 1986 at EDSA in Manila. The 20 year dictator Marcos was finally abandoned by the top two military men - Juan Ponce Enrile and Fidel Ramos - and his regime quickly fell. Hopefully, democracy will continue to overcome dictatorship.

Thank God, "peace through strength", you don't have any decision power. Your rhetoric sounds so much like that from a dictator. Why do you think that everything has to be about you or about the US? Don't you think that people, in Egypt or some place else, Muslims or not, have a life, worth as much as yours (a christian belief, no?) and get to decide what is good for them, their family and their country. Do you seriously believe that 80 million Egyptians get up every day thinking about the US?

peace through strength must NOT be American to so casually throw concepts such as democracy, civil rights, freedom, equality, pursuit of happiness, inalienable rights, etc into the winds for only satan knows what. If he is indeed an American, he must reconsider and move elsewhere where those ideals do not constititute the foundation upon which the society he belongs to was built upon and which continues to guides us into our future.

Every human being has the right to those things .... if they do not have them, they have the right to demand and fight for them. Anyone who would deny another human being or a group of human beings those very rights has no right calling themselves American. Maybe facist, communist, selfish, egocentric, olgarchist, or whatever, but could only claim being an American as a disguise for their anti-American reality.

Hello America, ""Cairo (Egypt) (Arabic Al Qahira, meaning "the Victorious"), capital of Egypt and the largest city in Africa. Located on both banks of the Nile River near the head of the river's delta in northern Egypt, the site has been settled for more than 6000 years and has served as the capital of numerous Egyptian civilizations. Cairo is known locally as Misr, the Arabic name for Egypt itself, because of its centrality in Egyptian life. Greater Cairo is spread across three of Egypt's administrative governorates: the east bank portion is located in Al Qalyobiyah Governorate, while the west bank is part of the governorates of Al Jizah and Al Qalyobiyah. Cairo is marked by the traditions and influences of the East and the West, the ancient and the modern. However, the city also reflects Egypt's growing poverty,

The origins of the site of present-day Cairo can be traced back to the Egyptian capital of Memphis, which is believed to have been founded in the early 4th millennium bc near the head of the Nile delta, south of the present city. The Persian kings were regarded as the 27th Dynasty. The Egyptians were able to regain control in 404 bc, but their last native dynasties ruled under conditions of internal discord and continual external conflicts. The Persians regained control of Egypt in 343 bc. Then, just 11 years later, in 332 bc, Macedonian king Alexander the Great conquered Egypt and annexed it to his Hellenistic empire. When he died in 323 bc, his friend and general Ptolemy became satrap, or governor, of Egypt

Alexandria (Egypt), city and major seaport in northern Egypt, in the Nile River delta, on a ridge that separates Lake Maryot from the Mediterranean Sea. The city was founded in 332 bc by Alexander the Great, king of Macedonia, who planned it as one of the finest ports of the ancient world. The most famous period of ancient Greek civilization is called the Classical Age, which lasted from about 480 to 323 bc. During this period, ancient Greeks reached their highest prosperity and produced amazing cultural accomplishments. Unlike most other peoples of the time, Greeks of the Classical Age usually were not ruled by kings. Greek communities treasured the freedom to govern themselves, although they argued about the best way to do that and often warred against each other. What Greek communities shared were their traditions of language, religion, customs, and international festivals, such as the ancient Olympic Games.

Cairo residents take great pride in the work of Nobel Prize-winning author and Cairo native Naguib Mahfouz, whose fiction has provided a chronicle of the city.

Microsoft® Encarta® Encyclopedia 2002. © 1993-2001 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved."""

Phonni was born in Athens about 400 b.c. Phonni was 68 years old when Alexandria was comquered by unrest Quote: "" In a moment of action remember the value of silence and order---Phonni of Athens"""""""".....

and from Fezzy Bear quote "He who is unfamiliar with Time keeping should not delve into the antiquities--- Fezzy Bear 2011 A.D.""" :) sincerely Fezzy Bear

The army is not standing with the people it is standing with the state. While it may not like the countries leadership it is acting responsibly as it should to maintain order without the use of violence. More disturbing is a comment made in a tweet by the Islamic brotherhood that refused the opportunity to sit down with the Mubarak government in talks to end the protests and the violence. This shows what their agenda really is, not the peace loving BS they claim.

And then we pay out Israel over $3B a year for its tanks and F-16s. Why do we always end up on the wrong side of the fence?

You need to do a little studying. Egypt is NOT an oil producing state. Their primary enterprise is the Suez Canal. Before you rant, look up a fact or two and pick yourself up a spelling/grammar checker.

I believe it's time we bring back the lend-lease act, so we can at least get our money back.

Oh you could be right, maybe Egypt doesn't produce oil, but I am sure that either Tunisia, and certainly the Sudan does, and I'm prettty sure that it was Libya that was holding the Lockerbee Terrorist, whom the British released prematurely, so that BP could gain oil rights in the Mediterreanean just off of Egypts and Libyan waters, in any event the whole U.S. Egyptian Foreign policy is economically motivated. and that the radical Muslim clerics want to gain control of the Suez Cannal.

What oil r u talkin about?!We provide Egypt with upwards of $2 billion a year in foreign aid under the provisos of the Camp David Accords orchestrated by Carter. The Egyptian military, in particular, receives $1.3 billion of this money. Egypt is receiving the money as a price to the peace it is holding with Israel & as the 1st Arabic country to sign a peace agreement with Israel after Egypt almost won the war of 1973 against Israel, when Egypt did so Jordan followed then the palestinian government. While when Egypt was in war with Israel, all Arabic countries were in war too!! And war costs much more money than peace IMO!!

and besides the whole point of the discussion is that now, we will have to send or eventually send U.S. tanks to fight U.S. tanks, and I'm kinda getting tired of paying for all this Diplomatic nonsense spawned by the Hawvord Graduates

Fezzy Bear. Two things. Egypt is not an OPEC nation. They have no oil. The $1.5 Billion annually given to Egypt by the U.S. is part of the Egyptian-Israeli peace agreement negotiated by the Carter Administration in 1979. Don't look at it as foreign aid, look at it as an annual bribe given to ensure Egypt leaves Israel alone.

jglio

"Egypt is receiving the money as a price to the peace it is holding with Israel & as the 1st Arabic country to sign a peace agreement with Israel after Egypt almost won the war of 1973 against Israel"

Nice revisionist history you have there. Egypt led a surprise attack in Israel and it took a few days for Israel to get going and was about to kick Egypt's azz one more time, when the soviets decided to take Egypt's side. America secured the peace to prevent a nuclear war. But good try. You almost had yourself fooled into believing it.

Better to provide economic/military aid to allies than to have turmoil and instability, such is as happening right now. These little revolutions throw the market into all kinds of disarray.

I dont believe we should prop up a dictator anywhere, and I am not saying Mubarak is a dictator, but where was Pharaoh Obama's supportive mouth when the Iranians were trying the same thing? He is going to make the US look bad once again. I think he likes to do that. So naive. He's very supportive of the Muslim Brotherhood (of course).

Mubarak has been a staunch ally of the US since 1981 like Sadat before him, with the treaty and military exercises etc. We should not feed him with one hand and then announce that his enemies should get rid of him with the other hand. We have got to support our allies, through thick and thin, in sickness and in health, or once again, our credibility slips lower.

Fezzy, you seem to have any opinion in search of facts. As has been pointed out, Egypt does not produce oil, and there is not - at the moment anyway - a "radical Muslim extremist regime" trying to take over the Egyptian army. These protests are not about religion, but about jobs and income. The oldest civilization on earth with a strong and internally respected army is not about to become an Islamic state.

With all due respect... but the United States does not give these weapons over to them Fezzy... They are bought... and if u look at some of the pics you would see that yes they do have some new weapons like our Abrams but they are the outdated ones with the lower range turrets.

In the course of the history of man that region was stable when cromagnum man was there since then it has been in a state of war for as long as records have been kept

US foreign policy dictates that the US should protect its interests in Egypt. Why does the US meddle in countries like Egypt is quite complex and cannot be summed up in a single paragraph citing you’re your anger towards US fp. That said, ill give it go as well. The 30 year rule of the current party brought peace to the borders after the camp david accords, not Egypt itself as was clearly seen with a presidential assassination but between the US’s closest middle east ally; Israel. Security, the Muslim Brotherhood is seen as a terrorist group and not as the political minority that they may now be. The current Egyptian power agrees based on those fat checks they get from the US but also to continue there rule unopposed. And finally, as you cited, oil. As an OPEC member, order in a single nation is necessary to for energy security of others. Even though that order can be seen as through an iron fist, it is still order on some level. That is the failure of the world to allow such a fate, obviously weighted more towards the US but than again, they have perhaps the more at stake than any other foreign nation in Egypt. I’m happy to see that Egyptians have decided to that there fate in there own country outweighs such others that are in. I hope that if this revolution does persist, a truly democratic government can please there base, even if it does ascend the Muslim Brotherhood into power. Also, this revolution is not comparable at all to the sha’s removal from Iran but that is a whole other topic.

It is not going to be a truly Democratic Government as you say, it will be a Theocratic Dictatorship run by a bunch of lunatics from Iran.

What Egypt represents in the middle east is the closest thing to a powerful western leaning nation. They are not democratic, no, but they are a balancing force against radicalization in the region and against Iran. Therefore, they are our allies. However, for 30 years American administrations have been pushing for Mubarak to open up democratic reforms. Just because he is a strategic ally does not mean we prop up his regime or support the type of government he has.

America has a narrow line to walk on this. On one hand if we openly support the demonstrators and they are unsuccessful - we lose an important ally in the region and our enemies will be emboldened. Also, it sends a terrible message to our other allies around the world that we would quickly stand against them if there was an uprising. And if we support the demonstrators too openly it puts an American stain on the movement. That is the same reason why we didn't speak louder about the protests in Iran. Their government was already brutally putting down what they saw as foreign medling and had we taken a larger role there would have been more bloodshed. So short of sending in our army to help in Iran (which would have resulted in WWIII), all we could do was to quietly vioce our support for the people.

On the other hand, if we support Mubarak, in a show of good faith to our longtime ally, we may lose the allegiance of the Egyptian people. If they overthrow him and see us as his supporter then the new government will be our enemy. We must simply repeat what we have always said and that is that Egypt needs more democratic reforms and behind the scenes we must urge Mubarak to step aside for the good of all. I believe that is exactly what our Administration is doing.

I certainly don't believe anyone who suggests that America will have to send in our military to Egypt. The Muslim Brotherhood is largely sidelined in this uprising so I'm not sure why we would be there. The majority of people on the street are simply poor and fed up. This is a very secular movement.

This is an Egyptian uprising and it is proper to let the Egyptians sort it out without our input. Screaming and yelling from a pulpit might win points at home in America, but if our President did that and took a hard line over this, overseas it would just make matters worse.

Diplomacy is a game more like chess and poker, not football or boxing.

radagast

You talk as if egypt belongs to you or the to the US more than the Egyptians, including the muslim brotherhood. Egypt belongs to the Egyptians and they are free to run their business as they see fit. end of story. Though i see your point and i disagree with it.

very well stated radagast, well done @};-

Uh, if the Saudis are toppled, the oil embargo from the mid 1970s will look like a friggin' bath tub party.

Yup. Oust the government and bring in the radicals who dislike the US because, we..... wait... propped up the dictator because it was in our economic interests to do so!! And gee, we wonder why half the world is peeved at us all the time. People need to wise up. This is not a good situation.

Precisely, Amused. However, I do not believe that it IS in the American peoples' best economic interest to prop up the dictator. Historically I think it safe to surmise that every time we prop someone up because it's in our best interest to do so, we end up paying for it horribly down the road: Afghanistan and Iraq are prime examples of our 30 years later saying, "what the hell did we do to ourselves?"

I would prefer we take a more measured approach to interfering in other peoples' governments. If democracy is happening in Egypt (and it is - democracy begins with unrest) then we should remain neutral while it fledges. Shame on us should the Egyptian government use the weaponry we have provided against her citizens. I would bet my left leg that some of the looting is the product of counter-intelligence measures designed to make the dictator look like the lesser of two evils.

The only stable government in the middle east is Israel. The rest of the arab world can't even get along with itself, regardless of who is in charge. Dictators are all they understand. It is in their religion.

Amused,

You are absolutely right, the U.S. has propped up dictators everywhere that posed a threat to U.S. companies being able to rape the local natural resources. Guess what? Your dictators are falling, so you better get on board with real democracy in the Middle East, or risk $8.00/gallon for gas. Barack, now is the time to do the right thing and ask for Murbarak's resignation.

Mubarak is criminal, he needs to be held to account. The people are afraid of being "disappeared" for a reason. 100 people are dead, but something like 500 are missing, and that is just this week. What do you think the numbers are for 30 years?

Yes, in a perfect world all leaders would face justice. However, that comes at a price. If dictactors are barred from exile as an exit strategy, they will usually stand and fight. Mubarak likely has groups within the military, police and other security apparatus, that if motivated by an equal fear of facing justice, could create quite a bloodbath before being toppled by force. Consequently, in most similar situations it has been deemed the lesser of two evils to let a rat slink away rather than plunge the country into open conflict.

We have got to rid ourselves of our dependence on oil. If it were not for oil we would not give a hoot about what is going on over there except for Israel. Just look at other places where thousands of people are dying and we don't even publish anything about it because it is not in our interest. What a bunch of hypocrites we Americans are. One day we will wake up and stop sending our hard earned tax dollars to these uneducated countries that hate us but want our money to survive. Since recorded history these people have been killing everyone that does not believe exactly like they do and they also don't think twice about killing each other. As a tax paying citizen of America I say let them keep killing each other if that is what they think is going to get them into heaven.

W. T. Patton

"We have got to rid ourselves of our dependence on oil"

Easier said than done. America used to be the largest producer of oil in the world. It is now #3. Why? because environmentalists won't allow it to be produced here. Sure we need to wean ourselves at some point, when viable alternatives are made cost effective. Until that time comes oil is the best answer and we have our own. Let's use it and get out of the middle east. Can't do one without the other.

Jimmy Carter created the energy department to reduce dependence on foreign oil. Since then dependence has grown and the department has grown into a do nothing monster. Go leftists go - like maybe to Canada and see how your environmental rules work up there.

and the Izlamofascits are doves

jackoff,

hopefully you dont live in these terrible United States. enjoy your life elsewhere.

Active,

The U.S. is certainly not a terrible place to live, and Americans are some of the best people you can find. Those two statements being true why then has the US government over the years done unspeakable and horrible things around the globe? Why do we, as a good natured and God-fearing people continue to turn blind eyes when our countries leaders take the wrong side? Supporting dictators, left or right is always wrong. Yet, we so often do it.

Now is the time to change that. I hope our government stands behind democracy, even at the expense of Israel telling us we shouldn't.

Israel, an apartheid nation attempting to achieve religious and eugenic purity (like what Hitler attempted in Germany, just different genetics being "encouraged"), is the antithesis to all that America was built upon and represents in this world.

If Israel doesnt like the USA encouraging and standing by those searching for and fighting for democracy and freedom, where ever they may be, then so flippin what. Perhaps Israel should have "make friendly" with Egypt ON THEIR OWN without needing US to bribe anyone to be their friends. If that had been the case, they wouldnt be having issues with "bricks in their pants" because a neighboring country is ridding itself of an oppressive dictator.

......... seems you forgot about Kent State and the National Guard gunning down protesters ??????

Not to mention that whole "civil war" thing we had a while back.

Having served in the military I can assure you I would have never fired on citizens of my own country, although after reading some of these comments.....

It sounds like you only support the democratic process in Egypt if the resulting government is as friendly to us as the dictatorship was. That doesn't sound very democratic at all. If an Islamist government is to emerge from Egyptian elections, should we not recognize its legitimacy. That seems to be how we treated Hamas. Maybe it's time for Israel and the US to reap what has been sown.

the Muslim Brotherhood represents less than 20% of the population and did not start the protests. They joined several days later. If you look at the banners, they do not contain radical Islamic slogans--not even moderate Islamic slogans. This revolution is not supporting religious or political leaders/ideas; it is demanding basic human rights, a responsive government and an end to Mubarak's regime. You are furthering Mubarak's own scare-tactics claim--that getting rid of him will bring a radical Islamic rule. My experience in Egypt (though minor) showed me a bright, considerate population that is well aware of the dangers of radical Islam. I expect this strong, historically wondrous nation to find its way forward toward a responsible and responsive form of government. God speed.

I honestly believe that we should be on the side of democracy always, but we do need to understand that not all democracies will be our friends.

And radical islam does not lead to democracy.

I meant to add that while I was in Egypt, almost daily someone would approach me, smiling and saying something like "USA, yes!" This is not an anti-American country.

Maybe you should seriously consider the ramifications of a hostile government in a global hotspot. You can shield your reason with ideology, but the fact of the matter is that we need as many friendly governments in that region as humanly possible. If you don't like the bare reality of the situation, don't follow politics. We're not being nefarious, we're being realistic.

What also needs to be understood is that when people are allowed to chose their government they don't always chose democracy. Some people, some cultures just don't want democracy, and that's okay.

My understanding is that the Muslim Brotherhood has never received a 20% approval rating in polling

thanks to muhammad hussan obama this is going to happen to america

what a moron! getting too warm in the tea pot, I assume. Everything facilitated by in the past few administration is all Obama's fault? While at it, lets blame the snow on him as well...

Kinda like blaming the Tea Party for all your ills huh Jackie, and I'm not even going to call you a moron.

Sorry bud, I have no ills. Not blaming tea party. Just having fun at the morons who want to blame EVERYTHING on Obama and his middle name. If you decide to use any of your remaining grey matter you will see the fun in it.

Uh, let me repeat American Citizen's wise advice:

"go directly to your medication

do not type, or delay in any way.

read the dosing on the bottle and double it"

Thanks.

Tetrapoda your either muslim or have failed to pay attention or both! You'll be of no help to this country with your head up obamas a$$ so wear the target, and bow to the east!!

Careful everybody; if you disagree with NamVet, you're clearly a muslim.

Mr. Obama is a very devout Christian by the way; he has attended church services more in the last 2 years than Bush ever did in 8, and he discusses his religious views in both of his books. Not that his religious views should matter in the slightest.

His past 20 years with Rev. Wright are the only religious moments that are authentic; the last two are his stage years!! I'll agree though; he is devout!

Namvet,

In one post you allude to Obama being a Muslim, now you're admitting he's belonged to a Christian church for the past 20 years. It can't be both.

I understand it's hard for you that an African American made it to the presidency. But guess what? These aren't the same times as the Vietnam war. We no longer send our minorities to the front lines before whites so that they die first. And Namvet, it's no longer cool to cover your face in white robes while burning crosses with your friends.

passiveobserver

"Mr. Obama is a very devout Christian by the way; he has attended church services more in the last 2 years than Bush ever did in 8, and he discusses his religious views in both of his books. Not that his religious views should matter in the slightest."

Where did you get the idea Obama was a devout Christian or attended church regularly? He ignored the national day of prayer but prayed with muslems. He and family have attended church 3 times in the last year and not even on Christmas. Too busy vacationing and partying at tax payer expense. Get a clue.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/president-obama-blackberry-faith-white-house/story?id=9689272

I think Obama is surging in Afghanistan so that we can have more Lithium to medicate the Far left Crazies and the Far Right nut jobs =-)

Would be less shootings on College campuses and the shooters in the future would still be using legal guns instead of illegal guns.

descent civilians? Some of the people are completely crazy. The whole point of an army is to protect their commander and their country. Sooner or later someone is going to use violence to get the upper hand, and my money is on the army on egypt. There are laws and rules to follow in every country, and if you dont follow the rules you will pay a price. Most of the civilians are pushing their limits. What if the civilians in every country broke out in a revolt against the government? Most countries would have their army mow them down like a field of tall grass.

No the role of the Army is to defend the Nations Constitution, and the people it governs. The only loyalty to any elected official that should be given lasts only as long as that person is adhering to it. It has a moral responsibility to remove from power any official that does not adhere to the ideas and principals established by that Constitution. "Just following orders" is not an excuse that flies in this day and age. Any move made by the Army has to be cautioned well thought out and executed with great care and concern over what is best for their nation.

i like you archie. your the only one on this whole subject who has made any sense at all

The tankers don't go through the canal they are too big, it is an issue and concern because alot of other traffic does go through the canal however.