Give us one example. You're making unsupported statements. What laws protect women at the expense of men? What social problems are you talking about?

Your an example, an over sensitive male who cries like a whelp clutching his Abba collection!!!

Crazy laws that protect women? you've got to be kidding....women are battered and raped every day and the husbands/boyfriends/perpetrators get probation here, counseling there, but never really suffer the consequences of their actions. And those are just the ones that the women are brave enough to follow through with the police, court and probation system who have the same attitude that you have.....

Mempho....Has masculinism gone too far? Caligula? Jack The Ripper? Richard Speck? I get it. All these joy boys really want is that fine old masculinism that allows "Boys to Be Boys"...right? When women are raped, stoned, abandoned and left with kids, how has feminism gone too far? Or, have men become little cowards who think if it feels good do it and don't worry if you bring kids into the world you have no intentions of supporting or parenting. Grow up little boys. Women no longer need men to support them. We can send all of you home so Mommy can take care of her lil sweetums for life. This is what you boys want isn't it? No obligation, no commitements, no responsibility for your actions.

Has feminism gone to far?

Sure it has. I'm tired of commercials that imply the Mom does everything and the Dad does nothing. Let's face it, soccer Moms screamed for their rights all through the 60's and 70's. Now they got what they wanted and they complain about that. Metaphorically, women fought for control, men got tired of fighting and let go of the steering wheel.

So for all you advertisers who ignore the Father's part in the family, I ain't buyin'.

Due to feminism or not, rape laws in the U.S. DO favor alleged victims of rape. I am gay. I and my partner of 21 years had a housemate in 2008 for 2 months in Cambridge, Mass., who eventually proved to be a multi-state scam artist and thief. He stole thousands from residents in our city, and in Boston, MA, and from people in NYC and elsewhere. Victims connected via the internet, and with their help, I created a blog and have posted news and warnings about him for over a year that have deprived him of new victims. People have thanked us. His crimes are "civil matters" and the police won't get involved. Warnings help others to protect themselves.

In retaliation for this, to make himself the "victim" and me the "bad guy", and to negate claims made against him, this jerk went to a local domestic violence support group, told them that he and I had a (fictitious) eight year domestic relationship, and that I beat him and raped him. No police report was involved, nor proof of any kind that he even LIVED in our city for eight years. He was given a free lawyer, I got a restraining order, and went to court with no lawyer, as I can't afford one. For ten days until the court appearance, I didn't know the basis for the restraining order. The judge heard his claims, heard my defense, and vacated the order. This however isn't proof of innocence. I still have a non-criminal record showing the unproven allegation of rape, that can affect future employment, etc. I seek to have the record expunged but must stand on my head to do this apparently. The laws are skewed.

Any one can cry "rape" against anyone. Anyone can get a restraining order based on lies. Anyone can bring anyone to court with a rape claim, trash their reputation before a judge, and leave residue even if no criminal complaint or charge ensues. Giving alleged rape victims benefit of doubt is one thing, but this shouldn't exempt advocates from seeking proof of ANYTHING. You don't live with someone for eight years with no proof - medical records, letters, photos, bank statements, testimony from a landlord or friends who knew the couple AS a couple.

Hans...sometimes as onerous as it may seem, the only way to get justice is in a court of law with a jury of your peers. Power freaks fear one and only one thing: the law. They try to get around it, skirt it with impunity but they know push come to shove, once it's proven in a court of law, it's now official.

Good for Sweden for asking that question because someone has to ask how in the world can a raped woman be able to report a rape?

Everyone knows that if the guy who raped them is liked by someone that makes him innocent. I think it is time we jailed raped women.

Is this what we have evolved to when a guy is accused of rape before he uploads something on line and then he pretends it is because of his unrelated upload that he is being charged? Okay, whatever...

name one innocent person serving jail time as a result of laws that protect women...........name one social problem that has resulted from the laws protecting women.....

It's interesting, I recently spoke with a young man, who is part of a group, who pitch in a set sum, every moth and for that set sum, companionship and sex are available to them, on a prorated basis.

Interestingly enough he asserts the group is doubling in size, about twice a year.

the consensus of the group, seems to be that given the current atmosphere women are simply not worth the attendant problems.

Please don't shoot the messenger, I'm merely throwing out information.

Wilburn...How many women belong to NAMBLA? How many women are pedophiles compared to men? This isn't an indictment of all men. Just an example of that tiny little bizarre thing inside some guys' heads that tell them it's okay to molest others.

More than I can stand!

Matt Young I am the mother of 5 children, I would love for nothing more than to spend my days home with them. It is my personal opinion that most childrens lives would be improved if womens rights had never happened. Alot of people think only about themselves and fail to want to see the bigger picture, I think that alot of feminist are selfish to the needs or wants of others; in my opinion they are no better than the rapist.

And for those of you feminist who don't like my comment because your babies daddy, doesn't take care of them well; feminism brought that around too. Use to be before women's rights became law that daddies were more inclined to take care of their children. Other men would stick up for you and your babies with a vengence, so dead beats were hard to find then. And by the way the father of my children has dead beatitis, so I married a husband that is there for them and guess what we have, we have order with him having the last say so.

And I have plenty of rights, in fact I still have more than I can stand!

Yes Jami5 having rights is such a tiring thing. You have to make decisions and think and all kinds of things. You even have to consider whether you like something or not.

Oh for the good old days when a man could just run your life and you could be called a whore because the baby-daddy said so. Those wonderful days when a man could not be the father just by bringing friends to court to say they slept with you too.

But you married the baby daddy, so no prob...baby daddy helped form your opinion so dang nab it g'friend...you rock 'cause baby daddy married ya and now you don't have to think or make choices on other stuff. Lucky you.

Gosh Darn it, femininism running around telling every woman they have the rights of every human being on earth is a pain isn't it? Now fetch my slippers woman...

ewent my 13 year old daughter has more sense than you, and it would appear that she is better educated as well; when I read your opinions it gives me an opinion that you are very selfish, untrust worthy, hateful, and uncaring about anyone elses opinions except your own. An intelligent person would have caught all of my statement and not just the parts that appeal to her. I am the bread winner, I spend our money. But if you missed that maybe you better you better go back and read it again. My daughters would have caught it.

Who ever gave you the idea that you were better than everyone else? There are worse things happening to young children, than have ever happened to you; so get over it.

I will wait here for your nasty, angry, self centered comments; for a spell, but then I must go as I have a life to live and people to love!

EWENT______— I did ask you not to shoot the messenger, but of course, you weren't able to resist, were you?

I have had the the interesting experiences of dealing with various ladies much like your self, over the years, I suspect that in your case the "glass ceiling" is steel.

I would not have person with your particular outlook, on staff at all.

Jami5 don't lose your job or decide that you do want your rights as I smell a D.I.V.O.R.C.E.

Men today like a woman who knows their own value. Not many dream of marrying a person with low self esteem who is willing to be the sacrificial lamb of the planet. You'd really like today's man if you understood their real strength and wants. Today's man is usually not looking for a dish rag. Ewent was right but that may rock your world.

You have every right to refuse to have rights. Enjoy it.

"Feminism" today is pure misandry and nothing more. Misandry? Don't know what that word means? I'm shocked, I assure you.

I have no sympathy anymore. None. I am so sick of all the whining, the double standards, the self-hatred, the inferiority complex, and the victimhood worn on women's sleeves like a badge of privilege. Get this, "ladies:" I'm a misogynist entirely made by "feminism."

Men, join your local men's groups. Show support for issues of men's rights. There is no reason for you to feel or feign guilt over women's perceptions of discrimination, no reason for you to endure "feminist" defamations, no reason for you to bow to post-feminist society's warped norms that leave men out in the cold in areas such as child custody, reproductive rights, divorce, and sex crime law.

Ewent - you seem hell-bent on asserting a woman's sexual rights as well as women's independence. My question to you is a hypothetical one, but I think is relevant in the world today and I am surprised that it is not challenged in court more often. Women right now have complete control over what happens to the baby prior to birth. If pregnancy is the result from consensual but unprotected sex, and the father of the child does not want to or is not prepared to support a child then does he have a say in the termination of the pregnancy or placing the child up for adoption? Remember, the unprotected sex was consensual and understood to be such by both parties.

Court cases in Western Countries of the world have all favored the women in these instances, stating that the woman's rights trump the man's right to fatherhood. That doesn't sound equal to me. If women expect equal rights after birth, then it should be law that the equality of rights to the child/unborn fetus should be extended to the pregnancy period as well, since it was a consensual act taken by both parties. Or do you believe that the male forfitted his rights by agreeing to unprotected sex?

Just because the court of law has ruled in favor of women in these instances does not make it right...in fact you could argue that women have the upper hand in these instances and can bully men. Sexual rights are a slippery slope and should be approached in that manner. There are rarely instances of cut and dry defined roles when sex enters the picture. Sex is a matter of passion and (sadly) reason rarely enters the forethought in these matters. You should be careful to not completely blame one sex or another in cases of questionable but consensual sex.

Well as I am reading these comments I am somewhat appalled at them. As the son of a single mother who took part in the feminist movement I'm surprised to learn by reading this that being a feminist has turned into something that is just about hating men. I thought it was about being on the same level and wanting equal rights and equal opportunity. Some of you have came up with your own definition of what being a feminist means and it includes being anti family and anti man which is simply not the case.

Feminism is nowhere close to being "pure misandry". It has nothing to do with hate but is simply a way for both sexes to raise their consciousness to the issue that we women are often discriminated against and that discrimination has been institutionalized. Does that allow us, as women, to commit the same crime? Absolutely not. The same holds true with racial discrimination. Just because some women take advantage of laws to protect women, doesn't make discrimination against women not true. And just because many men are actually quite fair in their dealings with the opposite sex, doesn't mean that others are not. To be fair, all things must be in balance.

As a feminist I am appalled at what is going on in Sweden and think the claim of rape and molestation against Assange is ridiculous. Ultimately this is a "personal" issue between Assange and the two women, not a legal issue. Whether an act is actually rape or not, to be fair to all parties, it must be proved beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law. If you have just had consensual sex with someone, then they wake you up to do it again, but you are not with it, so what? Are you actually harmed? NO! So how does it become legal and most importantly, how can you prove it? You can't. So put it down to Assange being a jerk, tell your friends to warn them, and MOVE ON!! Sweden has really lost its balance on this issue.

Norcal2 I am a very accomplished women I think that a lotof assumptions take place on here, LOL. Selfesteem, what ever gave you the opinion that I lacked self esteem, this mother of 5 can walk through a grocery store and turn many a heads; I can also work laps around almost all of my male counter parts, I have won awards in art, nutrition, and inteligence. And my children are doing the same. I also moved out on my own at 14, in an apartment with a job and all. I can complete construction jobs that make men ask my opinion, I can fix a car faster than more than half the men in my neighborhood, amoung my abilities are back hoe driver, professional landscaper, househeeker, manager, artist, dancer, and any thing else I see fit to accomplish.

I am a slave to no man, it is my husband who looks to me, but if there is a conflict, we go with his last word, there is nothing wrong with that. There are certain areas I have the last word, and that goes without saying. Their are a lot of abused angry persons on here, my children are not of your group and I believe it has every thing to do with my attitude on this subject. I am highly sought after, and my daughters will be too; they are intelligent, beautiful and talented.

And they are taught around the clock not to have sex with someone you are not married too and rat out the first person that hurts you, so they are tattle tales. And unlike most on here we don't have sex with anything that moves and there for avoid all of the problems that started this talk to begin with.

Divorce ha my husband begged me to marry him, 5 children and all, he had to pass a background check, a creditcheck, have a mental evaluation, provide his highschool records, and proof of employment. He never checks out other women, and in my own opinion I am as arrogant as they come, Divorce ONTGLOL

LOL some of you people are really crazy,andbutt blind.

ewent wears her bigotry like a badge of honor. Some men are bad, so all are guilty according to her.

Useless according to her. She's just a good 'ol girl who means well (gag).

Using extreme examples to convict all men. Thinking by using the word "some" that makes her hatred sound balanced. Lizzie Borden (I'm sure a hero of her's) would be proud of you. Good thing she doesn't like to have sex that often, the debt would be insurmountable.

Bitter, angry, vengeful, stupid, chauvinist. Such excellent qualities.

Sorry, Marie, but a few reasonable words don't make up for men having been virtually universally vilified by a disingenuous movement that has become an end unto itself after too many years of being made up of too few level-headed people interested in true equality. No, too many men have unfairly had their livelihoods ruined, been clucked at by in-laws, and had children taken from them for any amount of damage control or apologetics for a shadowy, somehow invariably non-representative fringe to make any difference.

Wow eccoli, a bit angry huh? Feeling emasculated?

gadzooks...Actually, I haven't a reason in the world to indict all for the sake of a few thousand miscreants. That would imply lack of fairness. Some men have no sense of fair play. They prove it on a daily basis with each other and with women. It amazeme the machinations men go through to best each other. It's like a pregnant form of competition.

As for your post....It's tripe and you know it. Another male who can't face the truth when it is as plain as the nose on your face. But do keep up the criticism....I thrive on it. It proves the point I make.

well if michael moore says this is a witch hunt, then it must be true. sarcasm off. aren't there any openings in n korea's ministry of truth for him?

feminism went too far when it told women that if they looked good, they were sellouts.

WOW...seems like a whole lot of men (ok, men on this particular chat) have some real insecurity issues. Setting aside those ignorant enough to admit they can't understand "no" means "no", and who further embrace the claim of victimhood for all men in having to think that hard, (these rape laws are for you--saves a lot of explanation). But the real winner here is Jami. I hereby nominate her for her clueless and slavish devotion to spreading hate for her own gender, her seeming complete lack of self-worth, and her embrace of the quaint notion that the downfall of the universe begins and ends with women being able to make their own choices in life (choices she apparantly doesn't think often go too well). Jami, you are an honorary male chauvanist (a quaint breed, but we do get to see them coming out as it were, with some regularity on postings like this one).

@TamL

Very angry, yes. Emasculated? If that's what you need to believe, I don't care.

Well Jami I went by your words. That is all I could conclude on. In your own words, you have too many rights.

That is not a confident position. A confident position is understanding that you must have the same rights as any human being and that you select what makes you happy from those rights.

Too often someone who opts to be a hamster wants all women to be a hamster. Self esteem would dictate that you never ever refuse to have any basic human right, that you never demand less for yourself, and that you get that you can choose to be a hampster or a lion but not have it be demanded of you.

There is not such thing as too much EQUAL RIGHTS, there are only rights you do not choose to have in your life.

thank god i was so terrified to be classified among the feminist ranks, thanks for setting it straight lol. Heaven fobid if you women should be reasponsible for anything right?

@AP

If I am furious that a loved one died in a fire because a female firefighter who kicked and screamed and threatened lawsuits when she couldn't pass the minimum physical requirements couldn't carry him out of the building, is that evidence of my "insecurity" as a man?

If I am disgusted at having been denied even partial custody of my children because of my lying, drug addict ex-wife and a court system (and a female judge, incidentally) that is SO inclined to believe a woman over a man in such matters that it refused to consider any evidence I presented, is that evidence of my "insecurity" as a man?

Well said Norcal. I think the fundamental issue is respect. Male or female, your rights end where mine begin. Respecting those boundaries is critical for any human interaction.

Before I proceed with my discussion, I want to mention that I am a proud brother of three beautiful sisters and having grown up with them I like to think I understand women more than most people. I have a lot of respect for the patience, the support and love they provide.

I have found men and women to be equal. They are equally good, intelligent and morally corrupt. Both genders are capable of and responsible for great and horrific things. Therefore, this general idea that people have about women being morally superior to men is unfounded. Also I find the personal attacks at genders by both sides on this issue to be tasteless and worthless.

Let us discuss the issue at hand. Around the world, feminism has either gone too far or it has not done enough. In some parts of the world, (Sweden, US) the laws are too restrictive infringing on men’s rights and in some places (Afghanistan, Pakistan) they are not restrictive enough. Please do not get me wrong, I will give credit where it is due. The feminist movement has been great for improving the lives of women around the world. But it is not perfect as nothing in this world is and people especially feminists should realize that. Admitting your faults is not a weakness as it is a sign of true strength. Secondly, two wrongs do not make a right. Exploitation of one gender does not make a valid case for reverse exploitation. If you stoop to a low level, how are you any better? Both men and women who do wrong should be judged against the same standard. Unfortunately, this does not happen in a patriarchal society nor does it happen in societies where feminism has gone too far.

I am indifferent to assange’s case but I have a few comments about the Sweden’s laws. I will admit that I do not know much about them other than what I have learned on the comments here. If the law states that having sex without a condom is wrong and consent is not even considered than the law is ridiculous. How is one supposed to have kids? I am assuming there is a clause for marriage but what about people that wish to have kids without marriage. If they have consensual sex to conceive, is the man breaking the law for not wearing a condom? Or whether the law is broken or not depends on the women reporting it? If that is the case than the women as an individual has too much power. I believe power should be shared equally by both genders.

Well Uncle, I'm sorry, but you're a walking stereotype. A woman done you wrong so you are now going to spend your time looking for hate in all the wrong places? Come on. move past the divorce--get on with life, see the rest of women on the planet for what they are, real live individuals,, some of whom are good, some of whom are bad, but all of whom are NOT your ex.

I also have one son with major heart problems, do you want to attack that too,m\aybe you'ld like to call him a pig, he is rather arrogant while he fights for his life, I don't think you are really reading my comments. Like I said selfish is what you are

@AP

I AM a walking stereotype, and I've already said as much in earlier posts. Go back and reread them. (Stereotypes are true, by the way - otherwise they wouldn't exist. Stereotypes are merely traits of which we're ashamed for one reason another.)

And what about the fire? Why no mention of that?

Actually, neither of those things happened to me personally. But you didn't answer the question, did you? Why is a man "insecure" or "emasculated" if he stands up and expresses anger at such injustices? Time was when women were called "hysterical" if they expressed indignation at exactly this kind of institutional gender bias. How is this any different?

Jami5....No one attacked you. You did that with your first post. Most women have to make hard decisions in life that men will never understand. Whether it's in reference to yourself, your children or your future. You bet your life I learned to be selfish. Why? Because there are two kinds of selfishness...the kind that takes care of you so you can take care of others and the kind that is all narcissism. I am the former not the latter. I've spent a lifetime fighting uphill battles. So, don't tell me what I know.

You bash feminists and yet, you are an unhappy woman which is clear from your posts. Let me clue you in. You come into the world as a single unit. You'll go out the same way. What lies in between is up to you, your choices and your strengths. If you don't like what you see in the mirror, do something about it. That's the great thing about life. You can do an about face in a heartbeat. Ask me how I know.

@ewent

And what about men? Do you recognize that men too have to make hard decisions in life that women will never understand, and that those decisions are no easier to make than those faced by women?

Feminism is an odd word. It means so many different things to so many different people. I am viewed as a feminist but I'm not sure that term applies when reading what has been written here.

I look at feminism as a declaration by the woman to be treated equally by the men around her but that also means an acceptance of responsibility of the cutsie stuff we leave behind. I'm a single mother. I spoke to the "donor" about it. And yes, my personal beliefs against abortion made it a no for me-I don't pressume to speak for other men and women. I wanted the baby because I thought I could do the best for her. He did not. So I acquired the document that would remove all parental rights and obligations from him. We did have consentual sex and a child resulted. We both had our desires for the outcome, but by insisting on being treated fairly and without being pressured by him to do what was best only for him, we worked to a place where my child is mine, I accept no child support and he has no parental rights. Diifferent desires but an equal solution that is best for all involved.

Feminism is not supposed to be about getting more for women and making less of men. Its supposed to be about stepping up to the line and men accepting that you belong there by your own rights. Women who want to coast on the tails of women's rights activists and the suffragets are sponges on society. Those women who worked to be treated fairly spent time in jail by order of the PRESIDENT of the United States. If that doesn't say woment needed the movement, I don't know what did.

But the world moves and turns. There have been women of power throughout history who persecuted and slaughtered thousands and men who improved changed the world to make everyone's lives better. People of both sexes, its fairly easy. If you don't want to pay the piper should the one night stand turn sour, then quit doing it. Body oil is cheap and children and criminal charges are not. Use a brain. Women and men are both resposible for what happens in a sexual encounter. Yes, rape does happen far more often than is possible to think of without becoming ill. Think of those poor Haiitian women and girls who have one more mouth to feed because some select men are doing unspeakabley evil things. However, it doesn't mean that I feel anything of the same for those Swedish women. By all accounts they were not uneducated or naive. If they were only to use him for sex then get up and put your clothes on and leave after your good time.

Bah! Too many women take feminism as an excuse to do whatever they want to and expect the men to pay for it, which come to think about it, sounds just like a rewind to the 50s but with a nasty, cynical attitude to complement the demands. You ladies want equality? Then get off your butts and step up to the line. Quit thinking men owe you something. You owe yourself far more than anyone else ever will.

Jami I do not know any woman who birthed 3 children by multiple rapes. I don't know what placed you in such a horrific environment that anything like that could ever happen to you against your will. I am so sorry that this happened to you.

I do know that before the feminist movement, those kinds of stories were not all that uncommon. I don't know what to say other than you have my sympathy and I hope that as this planet matures we NEVER again find women raped.

Your story is a part of what the movement was all about, that no woman must ever go through that. I am so sorry for you that you were a victim.

You really don't read anyones posts, I wasn't unhappy till I got on here and read your posts, see at this points I am only reading yours, I am really intelligent and worse I know it. I am also very happy, I am the proud mother of 5 intelligent individuals. And you all attacked my oppinion not 1 person one here gave me the right to choose to be their mother instead of being out in the work force maybe the last three came about in a negative way but they certainly didn't cause it, the equal rights you approve of so much cause me to livein fear my attacker is free a feminist taught him all the loop holes. He also punishes me for leaving him, my current husband adores me, protects me, and honors me. His words and kindness have brought about peace and happiness. And I rule the bedroom, maybe the women who strive for womens rights shouldstop being so selfish, and be more intelligent, when choosen a sexually patner. You have no right to attack me, for my rights it is my right as an individual to want better for me and my children. I am very ill, and I have to work, I need to be home with them, so give my huysband equal rights so he can care for me. Because in our world I get the better paying jobs not him. I want equal rights like everybody else your laws don't do that they make it worse. a 100 years ago my ex would have been gone, other men would have saw to him. When the rapes happened I was asked to make it up to get my protection order. I didn't lie it took longer to get it, but I sleep well at night.

You have said nothing but negative things to persons since the moment I got on this post, didn't attackanyone my foot. What a load. I have to go take care of my future pigs thanks for the enlightenment!

I have a whole new outlook on women!

Norcal2 easy you have them in a mulptiple pregnancy with the man you married. And the laws make it hard for you to leave honestly.

AP?

ewent?

Well?

Every day one finds numerous stories of women who have been assaulted, raped, mutilated and murdered by men. The violence occurs all over the world regardless of class, ethnicity, religion, etc. As long as women are continually victimized by men, feminism has not gone far enough.

Rape is rape so you used the right word. Today, even a husband goes to jail if they rape their spouse or any woman. Courts do act but I suspect many women who are abused do not have exit plans and it is not easy when children and finances are involved.

I remain sorry for you being raped. As I said the movement began over these types of abuses that women used to have to accept.

Maybe you weren't listening he didn't go to jail; 100 years ago someone would have just bumped him off, I did have an exit plan, I did go to authorities, I did ask for help, women were the worst persons in my situations, equal rights does not work, he is free, he is 38 his girlfriend after me was 15 he got her hooked on meth, women's rights are a crock, right now I have more rights, and guess where it is, oh ya under the protection of a man! While my attacker seeks out new victims freely, the 15 year old is 21 now and my best friend, she is also drug free, I love her, I love my husband, womens rights took away the rights of responsible caring men, and handed over the control to the abusers; then stupid convinced women to sleep with total strangers, must be a cycle in here somewhere. And women are just as abusive every night we can hear the woman next door screaming at her babies, screaming at hear man, I think equal rights is selfish

@lynseypug

So if a murderer is a man, he's a murderer because he's a man? This is what I'm talking about - anything bad happens to a woman, it's because men are evil. Why do you make it about gender? What about a woman who murders a man? He deserved it?

Jami, nevermind.

Is your real name Bubba?

What a convoluted crock...

Good luck with your choices in life. I sincerely wish you well.

I have been reading this thread, and I must say I don't get it.

Men and women are different, and I don't just mean physically. I truly believe they are equal, but they are different. A woman doesn't need to be masculine to be equal. You can be feminine and still be equal to a man. So if a woman CHOOSES to be Chairman of the Board, start her own company, or stay home with her children that she dearly loves, it's her CHOICE. And she can be feminine, beautiful, confident, intelligent, and EQUAL to any man she interacts with.

I don't understand why a true-blue feminist who truly believes in a woman's right to an opinion would attack another woman who doesn't share her hate for men. That seems kind of weird. Like a free speech advocate attacking someone’s right to speech.

Jami... Good on you. It sounds like you're a helluva woman and your husband is a lucky man.

But for the original point of the thread, all laws are taken to extremes by lawyers. That's their job. So yes, laws that protect women from domestic violence or sexual assault crimes are a critical part of the moral fabric of our society. But yes, they do get twisted SOMETIMES. A vast majority of the time, men accused of sexual assault are horrendous people who should be locked away. And there is no such thing as a "man" who hits women... that is a male with many issues who should also be locked away. But then again, there have been times when the man didn't really do anything wrong, but the law meant to protect the woman is used in an improper way against him. The classic example is when a girl cries assault to get back at a man. Maybe it is an urban legend or whatever, but the boys on the Duke lacrosse team barely survived those accusations that were proven to be false.

Look, in my humble opinion (and we are all entitled to one), feminism is truly important to our society. I say that because it ensures that half of our society is afforded the same rights as the other half. But that doesn't mean that women should do their best to act like men. There is nothing wrong with a woman who wants to be feminine. And frankly, most guys find the femininity attractive. Not because it is seen as submissive, but because it is feminine. If they wanted masculinity... well, you can finish the thought.

I guess the bottom line is that men should treat women as equals in all relationships... including work and marriage. But women should strive to be women, not the manliest version of themselves they can be.

And specifically for Ewent, a woman who maintains a happy relationship with a man isn't "dependant" on him. It's just a relationship. A frankly, in any good relationship, both partners are equally dependant on the other. That's why you have relationships, not sexual encounters.

Was that the absolute best answer you could come up with so more name calling, so more attacks. Choices where; I survived, well I take that back I excell, at all I do. Uncle Eccoli I agree with you. The rest of you must not endure through the same things as some. Bubba? I have no criminal record that doesn't even make sense?

pm

I found your answer to be very peaceful and a joy to read, you make perfect sense to me.

This is not about feminism, this is not about rape. This is about the left's poster boy, Julian Assuange, being prosecuted for two separate incidents of alleged rape. Let him go to trial and a judge and jury can sort out the truth under Swedish law.

Sweden is not necessarily a friend of the USA, and to assume they are after this guy to curry favor with us is wrong. Michael Moore and his ilk are so full of silly conspiracy theories, they have no credibility.

This subject deserves a reasonable discussion among reasonable people. But to bring Assuage and Michael Moore into it, descends the argument into crazy theories and postulations.

Feminism started well. It started with the desire to see women treated as human beings under the law and in society. It went wrong first when it started to assert that all women must embrace their newly available roles. If a woman is happy as a stay-at-home mother, raising her children that she dearly loves, with a husband who protects, provides, and respects her, who are you (any of us) to say that she should change her position? She now has the right to if she chooses, but that doesn't mean she should choose to do so. At the same time, if a woman isn't happy with that prospect, then she should by all means explore other options.

Modern feminism (or at least the most vocal, visible part of it) then went further wrong, and sorely wrong, by seeking 'revenge' against the 'men' who mistreated them (or more often their mothers/grandmothers). In doing so, they vilify all men. This is not all feminists, I understand, but it is the most vocal portion. Today, if a woman cries 'rape', she can completely ruin a man's life without one shred of evidence. Even if it is proven the allegation was false, the penalty to her is often minimal (filing a false police report), while the damage to the man often continues (careers ended, marriages ended, children lost, friends lost, etc). Even if a false rape complaint isn't filed, women can still ruin men's lives. Men love their children, too, but family courts frequently side with the mother based solely on the fact that she's a woman. THIS is feminism gone too far.

At the same time, there are still women being beaten down, physically, emotionally, and psychologically (sexual abuse is a tool to one or more of those ends). Sometimes, it is the law that is to blame, and the law still needs to be changed in those places. Feminism still has some job to do, but it must be careful not to overdo it. More often than not, though, it is the woman who is to blame, not for being a victim, but for not knowing what her rights are as a victim. The police can't do anything unless you make a complaint.

Police today still say that the majority of rapes are not reported, while many of them are also willing to admit that as many as 1/4 of rapes that are reported are false reports. This is the problem that feminism should tackle, on both sides. On the one hand, it's time for feminism to remind women that they have responsibilities as well as rights, and that their actions have consequences. It is also time for feminism to educate women as to what their rights are, and how to use them for justice (and not for revenge).

Jami, you sound like an excellent person who has arrived at a good place despite some bad circumstances. I commend you, and I commend your family and choice concerning it. AP and ewent, you sound like the stereotypical radical feminists, ready to burn men at the stake for even looking at you. Despite your claims to the contrary, your generalizations prove that you are willing to degenerate all men for the crimes of a very few. Most men today respect women as much as they respect other men. Be that a great deal, or not much at all, it is not a matter of gender bias. I don't know about most women, but the women I know are the same.

Jami I assumed by your point of view that you were either older and had simply forgotten how things changed for the better for women but I see by your husband's age that you are young enough to have been born into the benefits that have allowed you to become an accomplished business woman and have it all. You falsely think that a feminist is a masculine drill captain bent on threatening you to march to their orders but it is none of that. Many feminists opt to make home and children their career still others go into business as you did because where once they could never dream of a well paying carrer in business nor could they expect to be promoted to anything that would make them accomplished. I would guess that in many ways it is harder for someone like you who has been raped and abused to see any benefit. You can always find something from your own life that bears out how you see feminism but rape and jobs that you mentioned is not something that was made worse by having human rights. At some point when we look at our lives, we see our mistakes and we either do better or we don't. No one to blame our circumstances on beyond who got us from point A to point B and that is usually our own self.

Feminists come in all kinds of packages so the idea that they are hard line butch activists is just beyond outdated. They are moms, dads and families all across America who believe in the basic concept of all humans having equal rights. Had my life not been wonderful, had I not had 2 wonderful marriages to 2 amazing men, and had I made more mistakes in my own life, I suspect I would blame someone until I learned that I have value.

So what you have missed is that the side you are fighting expects you to have a great life of your choice but requires that you not crap on the carpet when you use real examples of such serious issues as jobs and rape and blame the host who has fought against those kinds of horrific things women used to have to accept. Again, there is no such thing as too much EQUALITY.

Mom does do everything. She brought YOU here didn't she? Guys whine and moan when they are abandoned by a woman in their marriage because they get a taste of what it's like. Most men can't handle a full time job, kids, the household, paying the bills without wifie's second income. Learn to live on one income like most single Moms do. Then talk. Till then, you don't have a clue.

ewent, your posts indict you of every fault you label men as haing in relationships. Take your victim cloak off and grow the heck up. Most single mom's are such for 2 reasons, first most men have a hope in hades of getting custody and second most are too stupid to take precautions. The single mom abandoned by a callous man is a small minotrity. BTW, I am a custodial father who receioved no child support from the kid's mother. I am not whining so move on with your life and be responsioble for yourself and you kids. You people revel in your victimhood like it is some bdge of honor, grow up.

Norcal,

I agree with the majority of what you are saying, but I think Jami is acting more defensively to a perceived attack from "feminist" who do not value her opinions/choices and her devotion/dedication to her spouse.

I wouldn't say she is fighting against the women's rights movement or crapping on the carpet of equality.

In the US, all a woman has to do is accuse a male of hitting her or touch her inappropriately and the man goes to jail just over an accusation. Most men can't afford lawyers and either becomes felons and/or sex offenders. At that point job oppurtunities and self employment oppurtunities become very limited. Divorce with child support also limits those oppurtunities for men as well thanks to the corrupt court system we have in this country. Almost half of all men our convicted felons in this country thanks to out of control feminism. That is a big part of why our economy is plunging and while we put in prison far more people than China and Russia put together. Just stating FACTS.

Almost half of men are convicted felons? Where'd you get that?

It may or not be the case that "feminism has gone to far", but that rather misses the point. If, in fact, Julian Assange actually did what those two women claim he did, he deserves to spend some time in a cell with a 400-pound fella named Bubba who will mount him while he sleeps and hold him down if he struggles. You DO NOT stick it in a woman who is lying asleep next to you without waking her up first and making sure she wants to play and you DO NOT ignore her insistence that a condom be used. Not ever! No amount of quibbling will ever change those facts. Asleep, passed out drunk, drugged into lethargy or comatose women CANNOT GIVE CONSENT. If you penetrate them you are not "making love" or even "having sex". You are masturbating into them... using them like a disposable tissue. And that is fundamentally, irretrievably and egregiously wrong in too many ways to even count. I am frankly astonished that anyone with a mother could possibly not grasp that...

don.c1984

Ewent - you seem hell-bent on asserting a woman's sexual rights as well as women's independence. My question to you is a hypothetical one, but I think is relevant in the world today and I am surprised that it is not challenged in court more often. Women right now have complete control over what happens to the baby prior to birth. If pregnancy is the result from consensual but unprotected sex, and the father of the child does not want to or is not prepared to support a child then does he have a say in the termination of the pregnancy or placing the child up for adoption? Remember, the unprotected sex was consensual and understood to be such by both parties.

You can not win rights to an unborn child because it would be the same thing as giving you the rights to a woman's body. This will never happen. We abolished "property rights' over people a long time ago and that is not coming back.

Nor should it.

If there is an answer to this question and how to make it right it comes down to personal responsibility. Sex may be an act of passion but we are not unthinking animals. Let's not pretend we have no control over what we do.

If you are going to have sex with someone it should be your responsibility to make sure you talk with this other person about what happens in the event of an accidental pregnancy. You should know where the other person stands. Heck, get it in writing if you have to. People sign prenups so I don't see this as outrageous either. There have been cases recently where men have been able to prove that it was not their desire to father children and were misled and/or tricked by the women and the men were let off the hook for it. It is not up to someone else to be responsible for your own lack of planning. Take control of your own life.

(No offense meant here)

If people think having to make up contracts in order to have sex is too much then maybe you just shouldn't be out having sex with people you are not 100% sure you can trust or don't know well enough to make this kind of determination. Seems to me people want the fun of it all but they don't want the consequences or responsibility for what comes later.

In the end it is up to all of us to protect ourselves and take responsibility for our own actions.

As someone stated earlier feminism is not perfect. Nothing ever is but it is better than the way things used to be. We all deserve the same rights.

You might read Steve Moxons: The Woman Racket, Nathanson and Young's Legalizing Misandry or anything by Christina Hoff Sommers. Looks like you mights have swallowed the feminist Koolade. It's sweet tasting but don't let that blind you to the poison that is Valley Girl feminism.

Wow... To answer that question; it has gone to far when they start having trans-gender restrooms.

But if a man is recieving... um... "oral pleasure", seems to be consensual enough. Patients is a virtue.

One person says it has gone too far, the next says not far enough. All people need to treat each other with respect. The ones who treat others as sexual toys or conquests have a problem. I was raped by an aquaintance 30+ years ago and I never reported it because of the embarrassment and shame I felt, later I felt guilty because I was worried he might do it to someone else. I decided to put it behind me and move forward, but every now and then the feelings of degradation, helplessness and fear come back to haunt me. While it makes me angry when I hear of someone else being raped, it makes me even angrier when people make false reports of rape!

The case with Julian Assange has nothing to do with "feminism," and everything to do with governments and corporations trying to silence him. One of his accusers is a CIA agent - enough said.

Uncle: (sorry : real life intervened) --but back to it:

A fixed widely held notion about a group (a stereotype) is not the same thing as a truth. (I for instance may hold that all divorced men who rant against women had ex-wives who were right, and I'd be right only some of the time.)

I never used the word "emasculated" (gee, uncle, I don't even know you). Now insecure: well, that's admittedly a guess at what's making you lash out against women in such stereotypical form. When one is secure (particularly in one's gender), one doesn't need to lash out indiscriminately.

As to the fire...I'm sure you see that as the truth. Whether it is or not, I'd not hazard a guess.

pm

jami is fighting against the women's rights movement in general. In her first post, she said children's lives would be better if women's rights had never happened, and later she said "equal rights is selfish". She bashes feminism while enjoying the advantages it has given her - she has had a career outside the home (several, actually, from her post), she was able to obtain a divorce, and she didn't have to accept her ex-husband's physical and sexual abuse. None of these would have been possible for her before the women's rights movement.

Minority, non-felon: gee, let me guess. It was your word against hers and the cops believed her. Now you rant against women having all the power against you and you are the victim. So the question is: why did the cops believe her?

Mempho: Loosen that tin foil hat. We're not out to get you. We're out to AVOID you.

I am a woman and a lawyer. By trainining and experience, I have to see as many sides to a situation or person as I possibly can. I do appreciate the very fundamental changes which have occurred for women such as having the right to vote, having meaningful opportunities for education and being able to compete for jobs that at one time were reserved just for men. On the other hand, women are as capable as men of lying, being abusive towards others, and my personal favorite: working our legal system. Acknowledging this does not mean then that I have a problem with feminism or all women. What I have a problem with is any presumption that women are pure, selfless and incapable of abuse and lying simply because of their gender. That is just ridiculous. I read with interest the post about the false sexual abuse charge that got thrown out but nonetheless left the innocent and falsely accused party worse off for simply being accused. I completely agree with him and as a lawyer, I am particularly concerned about that very issue and at least where I live and practice law, false accusations most often come about as a result of claims of sexual violence and abuse and allegations of threats to domestic partners made by women. In the state where I live and practice, any one (man or woman) can apply for and easily obtain an ex parte temporary protective order (and ex parte for those who don't know just means a hearing where the petitioning party gets to tell the judge anything without the accused even knowing the hearing is taking place), and although an ex parte order has to be served on both parties and reviewed within 15 days with both parties having the right to be heard at that time, you can imagine how many times people come in and lie to the judge simply to have a spouse who won't leave thrown out of his home or to gain an unfair advantage in a custody or divorce proceeding. Yes, men and women can do this but it is more often than not the woman who does it and more often than not, the judge believes the woman's story over the man's simply because she is the woman. I represent more men than women in these situations and I truly sympathize with any man (or woman for that matter) who has been taken by an estranged spouse or partner in this manner. The ex parte system for obtaining protective orders is a great example of women's rights gone wrong I think. As a lawyer, I don't think anyone under any circumstances, man or woman, ought to have the right or opportunity to ever go to a judge without giving notice to anyone else, and take any action that adversely affects the person who has no notice and opportunity to be heard. These proceedings are an exception to the general rules of due process and notice found in the court system and created in response to domestic violence/victims rights advocates who claimed that we needed to protect victims of domestic violence by giving them the right to go before the judge and get protective orders, exclusive possession of houses, custody of children and even child support quickly and without having to prove a thing or bother with notice to the other party. Our rights to due process and fair hearing should be preserved at all times. I would have no problem with allowing people on an ex parte temporary basis to get a restraining or protective order that simply says "no contact" until they get to court on a full hearing but I am completely opposed to the system we have that permits people to throw out a spouse, get custody, etc. by lying to the judge when no one else is around. In sum, as a woman and a lawyer, I am opposed to all laws that presume women do not lie and/or laws that give women an advantage over men simply because they are women. In my example, the law is in fact gender neutral but very few men use it and its proponents were women. On the other hand, I welcome the opportunity to compete with men on the merits where I would previously have been excluded and I also welcome laws that protect women from having to shoulder the entire burden of child bearing and rearing simply because they are women and the only gender to get pregnant. What I am talking about is for example, extending anti-discrimination protections to pregnant women so you can't fire a woman for being pregnant or taking leave for that. That is fair guys because as long as you want to be able to reproduce, women will have to get pregnant and since men can't, in this situation, we had to pass laws which take into account the fact that women are different and that even when people are married, there is no choice about who is going to be pregnant and give birth, breast feed and if we want to encourage people to have families, we have to make adjustments for this. I understand things have changed for the better in some ways and that I have benefitted from that but men and women are different. People are different and the bottom line for me is that I don't want to get something just because I am a woman but because I have earned it or because I am qualified. The only exception I can think of to this general concept would apply to integration of schools and society in general following slavery which was of course in and of itself unnatural, a distortion and an institution created by those in power. Getting rid of that and the disadvantages that slavery created required extraordinary measures and I just don't think women because of gender alone (there are of course black women) are in the same position as descendants of slaves. I know people disagree with that assertion but that is my opinion as a child of the deep south. I do not consider myself a victim because I am a woman but I really am a good example of a woman who has benefitted from teh actions of feminists. I just happened to be interested in a career that has long been controlled by men which led me to go to a law school which at one time did not even admit women. It is not a simple matter and men and women hating and blaming each other is not helpful and but does create broken homes, more crime and chaotic and unstable environments for raising children.

oh joy, Woman's Rights from an American perspective. Or at least it has the American feel to it. Almost completely extreme to one side or the other.

First off, my hats off to Jami-5. You posts (for the most part...with the exception of lowering yourself to arguing with Ewe [very fitting name]) are intelligent and well thought. C. Smith, your post is very well said and looks as if it was well researched. I completely agree with where you say feminism went wrong against the Woman's Rights movement.

The sad fact is, there aren't very many people alive anymore who were in the teen years during the 1940's and the 1950's or earlier. After doing sociology research years ago, I learned from such people that it wasn't just considered immoral for a person to get a woman pregnant and walk away, it was simply unthinkable. Society then would not tolerate such irresponsibility. Men were beaten with impunity, shunned, and driven out of towns and areas for things like that. Equally, women were completely supported by entire communities by taking them in and providing what resources were available to the community through churches, local charities, and government support organizations. While pairings might not have been the optimal arrangement, men were made to be a man and take care of their responsibilities back then. Rape (when reported), was something that was more over not tolerated. Even without a conviction in a court of law, people were hung from trees or lampposts should the community take the law into their own hands. Even into today, when a conviction for rape or molestation is considered one of the harshest crimes that can be committed in the penal system. A conviction can turn out to be a death sentence with other convicts turning on the rapist and often punishing them in a manner which the courts could never come up with.

During the 1960's, with youth of America completely revolting against the establishment, was when the vocal minority began burning bras and deciding that a woman's place was anywhere other then a kitchen. With the beginning of this "Women's movement for independence", began most of modern feminism. In their rebellion against the establishment, women began to realize the potential for positions of power and removing the male counterpart to a lesser position where women of the past had been. The Yin/Yang principle illustrates for us the over calculation of the modern, hard line feminist.

What does that have to do with "Has Feminism gone too far?" Well, simply put, we as a society have strayed from what makes a great society great. Working together. We'll examine from the points of Jami-5 and Ewent. If you have been reading the back and forth from them, Jami-5 has a moderate stance of working together with compromise and support from her husband to having 5 children being raised in a stable home, mother working and father currently out of work. Jami-5 is a self professed, achiever with the help and support of her family. While she takes some of the credit for how things are turning out for her, she does not hesitate to credit her husband for what he is due. They work together.

Ewent on the other hand comes out from the start asking how feminism has gone too far by indicting all men, based on a vast (albeit, famous) minority of men who have committed atrocities in post 1.4. Her next comment, post 1.6, shows us that she believes that a man is incapable of doing most things in life without a woman in their life and whine or cry when there isn't a woman there to tie their shoes. In post 1.16, the attack begins on Jami-5 saying she is a "butter my palm" woman (when her post showed that she is clearly the bread winner of the family) and it just gets progressively worse from there, as she has obviously found someone to argue with.

To be honest, this shows the actual dividing line within American society. Those who show their progressiveness and how they are working together within the family to achieve goals and have a happy life (winners) and those who feel they are trapped by circumstance into what they have (haters). It is unfortunate that we have this dividing line. I'm sure that with an open mind, Ewent could pick up some tips from Jami-5 on how to move into the same place that she is. But as is shown in most of Ewent's posts, she is unwilling to move from her hard lined approach to men. Perhaps it's a problem of respect for men, not boys men. Perhaps it's a problem of the men that she has had as examples in her life, perhaps someone taught her that these things are true of men, or perhaps the bias comes from seeing the examples of women like Jami-5 who are in a place she feels she "can't" ever achieve because of circumstance. Any way that it is sliced, such a shame.

Me? I'm a man, I am a husband, and I am a father of 2. I live with my wife, who does not work and enjoys taking care of the children. It was her choice to stay home with the children until they are 5 years old (the forming ages of a child), after which she will go back to being a chef. And there's the important thing, choice. If I am truely a man and understand women's rights, then I understand that I must respect that she (as well as I) have to make choices in life. When we discuss these choices together, either of us has the choice to support or reject the other's choices. But if we are truely a family, then we have to work together with the choices that are made. Sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse. We call the choices we make "our choices" because as a family, we live with the consequences for good or bad. I think that's part of the vows you make when you marry someone.

Working together is what makes a great society great. This country lost that along the way. Whether it be based on race, religion, or gender. This story speaks to gender, so has feminism gone too far? In my opinion, yes.

I would like to respond to the one who asked where even ONE innocent man was put in prison for rape. Last week in Texas, a man was released from prison after THIRTY years after having his rape and robbery convictions overturned because of DNA evidence. So ya, I guess there was ONE innocent man in prison on a false rape conviction. Google it, you will find more....rape conviction overturned on DNA evidence

Feminism: the belief that women are equal. There you go. (pretty radical, ain't it).

kc...Sorry, I don't agree. Women earn 78 cents for every dollar a man earns in 2011. Women know what they are capable of and don't need any man to tell them that. Women go to college, have careers and most of all.....most of all ....the freedom to do the same things men do with their money.

If anything take a look at what passes for men these days. How has masculinism imroved the world? Seems to me that masculine majority in power needs a swift butt kicking.

Hard as this may be for men to swallow...no woman is going back to the days of our great grandmothers when she couldn't own property, had no money in her pocket and stood by the kitchen stove stuffing the gut of some bossy, overbearing nutjob husband. Men long for those good old days...men who are covert bullies. And, let't not pretend that men like Assange don't every day in every office leer, make remarks and harass women. Men are so cliquey that women are still unable to break through that glass ceiling in the same proportions men do and God help the woman who decides to have kids AND a career. Right away she's on a Mommy track. So...how come there is no Daddy track?

Let me see, we have a rant citing a study from decades ago that the source admits was intentionally flawed, and then it decays to women are vastly superior to men, and men want them barefoot and pregnant to keep them in line. we then pretend we are unbiased. The thread is about something entirely different, where are all the feminists demanding equity in law for the crime of false reporting rape. Law enforcement estimates up to thirty seven per cent of accusations are false, where is the outrage, where are the demands that a verifiyable false charge carry the same penalty as the crime....silence.

ewent

It is clear that you are an emasculating, man-hater. My guess is that you are also a "left-over": a woman that no man will have, and that accounts for your bitterness.

In the US, women do get paid the same for doing the same work. That's the law. If women earn less it is because they are clustered in jobs that traditionally pay less.

No one is arguing that laws against rape should be dropped, but laws that criminalize normal dating and mating behavior do go too far.

Yes, men do leer at women, and make sexual advances, at work and at other places too. That's how men and women get together--or would you rather go back to arranged marriages? You seem to overlook that male sexual forwardness is natures way in most species. (That's MOTHER nature, by the way)

micrometer...I'm a gorgeous, self-possessed woman who doesn't need any man except for fun and games. As for no man wanting me....guess again oh Grand Pubbah of The MascuNazi World. I was married. Until I got fed up being Second to the Male Bonding BS at the local pub. My best friend is a male I've known 28 years and I'm also the favorite aunt of 11 nephews. I had 7 brothers and half brothers...You bet your male bippy I know men. If I didn't, they spent most of my childhood pounding that knowledge into me.

No....women in the US do not EARN...got that? EARN the same amount of money men do. You need any proof of this check the Dept. of Labor statistics which just last Nov. 2010 posted the figures. Women earn 78 cents for every dollar a man earns. What does that tell you? That we earn the same? You need a math course pallie.

Gorgeous, self possessed Ewent.

We are all very proud of you.

Get some anger management.

Would someone give Ewent a maxi pad?

I mean, seriously? I know plenty of women who make more money than I do (as a highly experienced network engineer), who have additional education and experience. In addition to that, a woman with children in a professional setting, at least in every company I've ever worked at, can get away with not showing up for work/being late on a near constant basis, simply by saying she had to do something with her kids. Also, when the single men are forced to work crazy overtime to pull out a project - the women with children beg out saying they have to take care of them. And maybe that's true; I don't have kids yet, and when I do I'm sure I will want to stay home more - but you cannot expect that not to ding you on a performance review, somewhere, somehow. If you want everything to be equal, then it should be /EQUAL/. If you want exactly equal pay, put in exactly equal hours and effort, and don't tell me you can't work the weekend and I have to pull an extra shift because you have a kid, when the man in the same situation would be laughed out of the building if he said that.

Daniel...Unless you have paid for childcare which the younger working women do, you bet your life they'd rather be home with their kids. But not necessarily for just that reason. If they have to work an additional 2 hours, that's 2 hours less time they are with their kids and some other person is. Men just don't have the same sense of obligation to parenting that women do. It's the reason single Moms all end up feeling guilty about having to work outside the home and leaving their kids. Single Dads express no similar feelings. They just accept that they have to work outside the home and leave their kids to a daycare center.

Oh, kc, kc....That's a BIG load to try to carry. No one's buying (outside your head).

M. Fisher...I'm too old for Maxi-pads and too young to be anything but gorgeous. People who are happy, relatively content and enjoy life don't grow ugly, they just grow. Anger and hate make ugliness. Sorry. Try again.

Ewent - Reading your posts I like many others simply thought you were a pseudo-sophisticated feminist loser - until these comments:

"Men just don't have the same sense of obligation to parenting that women do."

Really? I have 5 children from 2 women and I have minimum 5 times the sense of obligation to parenting as either of them. Everyone who knows us agrees as did the court that granted me permanent full custody of my first two kids.

"It's the reason single Moms all end up feeling guilty about having to work outside the home and leaving their kids. Single Dads express no similar feelings."

Oh Really? I wonder why when I am at work sometimes that tears start welling up in my eyes because I don't feel I am spending enough quality time with my kids. The mother of the last 3 kids spends virtually ALL of her time (and all her money) on her career and on herself even though I pay ALL of the family expenses. I can assure you it is SHE that does not have any feelings of guilt. I am the one who constantly worries if I am doing enough for them!

You have an amazingly warped perspective of males and especially fathers!

I noticed that you said your ex-husband prefered being down at the pub bonding with males than bonding with his wife. I guess your "fun and games" weren't much fun to him, were they?

Small wonder. What a man-hating twisted female you turned out to be.

On the pay issue, there have been numerous sociological studies, even by feminists, that have nailed the causes of this down:

1.) Women tend to cluster in lower-risk professions than men. These professions pay less accordingly. Think about it. How many women work as hair dressers? How many men? How many women work as construction workers? How many men? The men that work construction get payed more not because it is a more skilled position (it isn't), nor because they're men (the women that work construction get payed the same), but because you're a lot more likely to be injured or killed on a construction sight than in a hair salon.

2.) Women, on average, don't vie like men do. When men get a job offer, they typically negotiate for their salary, and aggressively. Women are much less likely to do this. Women are also less willing than men to work late hours, work weekends, and go on business trips. All these things are key credentials that bosses look at for raises and promotions.

The above are findings of numerous studies and, as such, they are statistical averages, not absolute facts. There are women who work in construction, the military, and boardrooms. There are women who aggressively negotiate their salaries, who are willing to work overtime, weekends, and go on business trips. These women earn just as much, and often more than, their counterpart men who act similarly. But there are a lot more men who act like this than women. On the other hand, there are men working in hair salons, men who just accept whatever pay is offered them, men who aren't willing to work overtime, weekends, or go on business trips. They don't get the promotions and pay that other men do. They get the promotions and pay that women who act the same way do. There are just less of them than the women who act that way.

That's not even a bad statement for the average woman. If you care more about your kids and family than your career, I'll be the last one to criticize you for that decision. But you have to realize that your career won't take off like someone else's who's been working their tail off for their career, often to the detriment of family.

ewent, I don't know you, but from your postings, I think that I would rather be drinking with the boys at the pub rather than get pounded at home.

Does your exhusband have a divorce party every year? WOW!

ewent, I worked as a contractor at many Fortune 500 companies over the years, and I currently work full-time at an international company which has over 140,000 employees. Maybe it's the quality of the places where I've worked, but I don't see women being treated any differently or being paid less than men. I have women team leaders, managers, directors, and vice presidents in the organization where I'm currently positioned - usually I have more than one woman above me in the chain of command, and among my co-worker peers there are many women who make as much or more than I do. To me this is the norm, and has been since the 1980s when I began my career.

Honestly you sound like you have very limited exposure to the white collar workplace in the US.

Sure is funny to watch the FemniNazi cluck around.

Someone throw her a bra to burn.

Na, he just hates all the crooks. And corrupt losers.

Bugs always hate exposure.

Moore isn't Assange. Moore has a extroverted bully boy attitude. Assange dresses his in pink and then pretends it's all sweetness and light. Assange is a covert bully because he has to hide his true nature. He's a certifiable little twerp. Without his computer geeks, he's zip. Who would know his name if his computer geeks didn't do his dirty work? He's nothing but a little coward. He purports to be after truth until it's his own.

Moore is a bug. A cockroach. A fat one at that.

Even if you believe that Wikileaks is doing good in the world, that doesn't mean that Assange can do what he wants sexually and not be held responsible. No means no. When a woman agrees to sex WITH a condom and then you have sex with her and hold her down, while you are without a condom, then you have committed rape. What part of the word no, don't you understand?

ewent, considering the warped laws in Sweden, and the actions the Swedish police have taken in this investigation (did you know they wanted to hold him without arrest and without communication?), any sane man would avoid their legal system. Legal systems are not always systems of justice.

Given the assertions of these women, even if they are true, I don't see rape. Given their behavior afterward, I really don't see rape. It isn't rape if consensual sex with a condom sees the condom breaking. It's an accident. Unless you can prove he sabotaged the condom... Good luck with that. It also isn't rape if you ask him to use a condom, he says he'd rather not, and you then say it's ok, he doesn't have to. That's consensual sex. And sex by nagging is a woman who didn't know how to kick a guy out.

That's enough proof for me. Ewent is indeed a male hating feminazi who cares nothing of the truth, only to swat as many men as possible before the end of her pitiful existence.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Follow some retarded religion based on a book created by power hungry control freaks promoting a god that doesn't exist. If we went the way of the amish, you wouldn't even be allowed to use a computer to write your comment, and we'd never be able to visit other countries because our covered wagons couldn't get us there.

Toolmaker...Men will always look for any excuse not to do what they know they have to do. Always. It's the reason they hang back ever so much longer knowing some fool will come along and pick up the mess they leave behind. Not all men. Just the ones who were never taught responsibility for their behavior.

Ewent, you are a reverse misogynistic female. Sorry but you can't have a penis unless of course some doctor makes you one out of parts of your vagina. God knows, however, it's so obvious you want a penis...And I mean besides those of the men you refer to as your "play things". Damn, could your hatred of men get more obvious? No. Everytime you open your mouth and spout your hatred for anything male you show how off balance you really are and anybody can see you have become that which you hate ie. a complete sexist.

M.Fisher...You don't know me. I am self-possessed. Self-willed and all too independent. I don't waste time on hate. I do, however, manage to keep only the Blue Ribbon guys in my circle of friends. I am a woman and love it. I just don't allow any man to run my life for me...emotionally or financially. What I spew is something you can't stand....truth. But let's face it. You don't grow up in an all male environment and not pick up a few of the more glamorous male traits. Especially when, wink, wink, nod, nod, when they are an advantage to me as a woman. Stop trying to figure women out. It's a waste of time. Most women are smarter than men on a more cerebral level because they are the first ones to bring you guys into existence. Gives all women an edge no man will ever have. Jealous? Good. So...if I hate men so much how do you explain why I have so many asking my advice on a daily basis?

Assuming made an ass of you.

I never claimed to know you. I don't need to know you. All I have to do is read your unbelievably lopsided view of the men and women. Jealous?? Bwahaha! Guess what, I'm completely happy in my male skin and for the record I love women and the contributions they make to humanity.

I could give a rats ass if you 100 brothers! You don't have a clue about men. Nor does somehow having a male baby give you some kind of mystical insight into men. You're a sexist misogynist who has picked the worst traits in men (many of which women are just as guilty of) and painted all mankind with them.

And, btw, thank you for driving home all of my points with your very predictable response.

Fisher is right ewent. Your statements show nothing but your own ignorance and hatred. Ive had to post this to others and I'll post it to you. The level of your conceit is appalling and even vulgar, and if it weren't apparent that your own hubris won't allow you to feel shame I would tell you to re-read your posts and reflect on what sexism really is.

M. Fisher...And yet, you continue to try to pinpoint the intent of my posts by criticizing me. Good...that shows some initiative on your part. For what is anyone's guess. I am neither conceited nor vulgar. Read my posts. Nor do I ever intend to allow any man ever again in my lifetime to criticize me because he thinks he knows me or "my kind".

I know who I am. If you don't, more's the pity. Self-confidence is the only insurance any woman has to advance herself. Sorry if that offends your sense of values. And we know what those values really are don't we? Someone dethrone the king?

Baron...Find me a man who doesn't have the insecure need to make sure no woman ever gets ahead of him and if she does, doesn't resort to trying to tearing her to shreds with criticism. And when that doesn't work they start on her weight, her looks, her weaknesses and look for any tiny loophole in her vulnerability. Doesn't work with an old war vet like me. Sorry.

I like who I am. I am not reinventable by any man, for any man. I refuse to be some guy's wind up doll. If that's vulgar....so be it.

Please continue to speak to my values. You no nothing of me, and I'm certain you would not be interested. The only things I know about you are derived from your posts, and I am not impressed. You have called men neanderthals, claimed it is our goal to keep women down, and looked down on men rather than considering us as equals.

Find me a man who doesn't have the insecure need to make sure no woman ever gets ahead of him and if she does, doesn't resort to trying to tearing her to shreds with criticism

I am right here, and there are many more like me than you would like to admit.

I like who I am. I am not reinventable by any man, for any man.

I agree with this, however I would have said I like who I am, I am not reinventable by any person, for any person. That sentiment certainly isn't vulgar, but your arrogance in claiming your superiority certainly is.

Find me a man who doesn't have the insecure need to make sure no woman ever gets ahead of him and if she does, doesn't resort to trying to tearing her to shreds with criticism.

I'm not Baron, but I'll second his 'I am right here, and there are many more like the than you would like to admit', though I'll admit that the latter part is a guess. Still, a safe one considering your posts. Particularly, things like this:

Most women are smarter than men on a more cerebral level because they are the first ones to bring you guys into existence.

Really? This idiocy flies in the face of both science and logic. Do you know any of the science? Do you know what the most significant organic difference between a man's brain and a woman's brain is? It's not IQ, or learning capability, or social capability, or language, or emotion, or anything like that. It's a part of the brain called the corpus callosum. The average woman's is about 3 times thicker than the average man's. Interestingly, it doesn't actually do any thinking work. It's just a communications bridge between the left and right hemispheres. You can actually have it completely severed and still function normally (they do it for extreme cases of grand mal seizures). What it means is that women are better at cross-referencing abilities from the two sides of their brains, like attaching emotional meaning to colors or shapes, while men are better at isolating those functions and handling them independently.

Even more interestingly, while you may think this would lead one or the other to at least be better at multitasking, it doesn't. It just changes the way multitasking works a little.

Ewent goes, "cluck cluck cluck cluck cluck, bok bok bok bok bok" and says nothing of value.

What precisely is it that you need standing up for? Better pay? Greater opportunity? More recognition in the classroom? More access to jobs?

Greater ability to walk away from responsibility? More opportunity to duck legal / ethical / moral definition of abuse or rape inside or outside or relationships?

What is it exactly that you need standing up for? Just curious because in the year 2011 the cards remain stacked for the male gender.

That's right ewent...If women ran things the world would be a utopia. There would be no crime, no hardship, no wars because women are never greedy, never lie, never murder. Whatever. You're a sexist idiot. Get some counciling.

Eooowent - "Men rule the world and look what they do to it. They either pollute the planet, spend billions on perpetual war and then act like it's the woman's fault they are so unable to sustain a peaceful, tranquil life for longer than an hour of each day." And you have proof of this or is this what your feminist doctrine teaches?

Most educated Men know that this is a myth perpetuated by feminists to blame Males for everthing and anything that is wrong in society. It is being taught in our schools and is a major contributor to the failure of our society. Warren Farrell, Phd., wrote about the Feminist Movement and its dangerous path in his book "The Myth of Male Power." I'm sure you will want to respond with more feminist rants that will only be entertaining at least.

Wilburn...The man I worked for 22 years differs from you. He doesn't expect female subserviance nor is he a male supremacist. And, you couldn't afford me. I expect to be paid what I am worth. See? All that male indoctrination I received as a kid works super well for me. I know how to think like a man, act like a woman and do as I damn well please without some guy hovering over like a giant hawk. By the way, I'm curious. What happens to wifie least independent if you go to the great beyond before her? Is she one of those "well provided for" until the economy turns sour after you're gone and she's living another 20 years longer than your "provisions"? Oh right...You taught her to be a secretary. She'll make a huge salary with those skills.

Aw. Well, perhaps the women at work will throw you a pity party?

Ewent,

Women who see the world in this fashion really only have to come to one logical conclusion: Eliminate men.

The world's sperm banks are large enough to allow the human race to reproduce for generations for millions of years. IVF is sophisticated enough to allow this to happen. No new male babies should be created. The men who are alive today should either be killed holocaust style or put to work in labor camps/underground. Their genitals should be mutilated (that's equal justice afterall) and they should be beaten and starved until they die a horrible death.

Once all of the men are gone, then their memory must be elimated as well. Destroy all art, literature, music, and historical reference to men. It may take several decades for women to do this, but we must be elimated and destroyed like the cancer we are.

Deep: Now that's so silly, I'll bet you don't even believe it, and you WROTE it.

Ok, anyone? Was there a sale on these tin foil hats at WalMart that i missed??

I once spoke with an ex-judge in the state of Nevada. According to this judge, attorneys take women's cases for free because, "They win!" That was it, that is what he said. So I looked into it, and found he was right. Attorneys in Nevada are indeed taking cases for women at no charge, while the men have to pay up front. In many cases, the male can't get an attorney, and often end up having to pay for the other attorney as well.

Of course, don't tell Ewent. She'll find some male-hating excuse to either call it a lie or say it is justified.

Is it so silly? Give some real logical thought to how the radical discourse of women's rights has forced on society in the last 40 years or so.

Now before you label me some generic pig, I would like to say that I too beleive in EQUALITY. That means what is good for the goose is good for the gander as well. Since when does EQUALITY meaning that one side must actually be given more rights, more freedoms to 'punish' the other for past transgressions? That isn't equality, it isn't even affirmative action, it's Tyranny wrapped in the cloak of justice.

Again, to restate what I restated earlier: To listen to extremist rhetoric, such as the stuff that ewent posted, one only needs to come to the final solution for us men. We're ALL bad. There wouldn't be any war, poverty, famine, disease, rape, beatings, STD's, Drug use and any other host of societal ills that ewent was discussing if it wasn't for us twisted, hateful, corrupt, controlling, greedy, slothful men.

No matter how hard any of us "Try", our "morals", "ethics", "boundaries", "chivralry" and various other "white knight" behavior will be viewed as a manipulation of womanhood.

Ewent has proven the extreme, correct; women don't need men for anything and I mean anything. It is no longer about 'girls can do anything that boys can do', it is now about 'girls can and will crush boys in every aspect of life, PERIOD'.

Viewed through that narrow prism, ewent would want you to conclude that the final solution for our world's ills is the ONLY solution.

Now let me adjust my tin-hat to make sure that I do not miss "Jeopardy: Znlarlog edition from Gamma Prime".

Under your reasoning, we return to a time when the mere fact either of these women had consented to sex under any circumstances and at any time with him, meant they consented at all times and under any circumstances and forfeited any rights then to their own bodies. (Very much the reasoning that led to the establishment of marital rape laws: you do remember a time when it was widely held that marriage itself meant consent?) this isn't nearly as complicated as you would infer. Sweden for one I suspect, will not agree with you on this "fix".

AP:

Not really. You're assuming a reasoning of irrevocable consent that isn't present in any western legal system I know about, and isn't even suggested by either Ms. Koljonen or JDN. If the woman doesn't like what's happening, then she can say no and stop it. That is revoking her consent. She can do this at any time, just like she can give it at any time, just like the man can either give or revoke consent at any time.

On top of that, I would argue that, if someone denies consent, the other party has every right to try and persuade the first party to give consent using any and all legal methods. If she doesn't want to, he should be able to talk to her to convince her to, unless she tells him to get out, at which point he has the legal right to get dressed and leave, and that's it. If she doesn't tell him to get out, she is accepting a continued conversation on the matter (though she can also issue conditions like, 'shut up or get out').

You miss the point. There was a time when she couldn't say no. And that was very much codified in law. I'm suggesting we not go back. If a woman says no, it's no. Not really all that complex a matter. These women claim they very clearly said no. Now in your world, perhaps, women can simply "stop it"as if they were cancelling a purchase at a counter. I'm not sure too many women think the real world works quite like that. Centainly, no woman is obligated to accept "continued conversation on the matter" (my goodness, you must have some very, very complex encounters.)

Chris...I agree. However, because of Swedish law, having unprotected sex is considered a criminal act. The reason for that law is clear: Sweden has universal health care. Imagine what would happen in such a sexually free society if unprotected sex wasn't a law? The incidences of STDS would bash apart their healthcare system.

Chris. I would not believe that during the course of sexual relations a female would fail to realize that a condom had been removed. Whether some women might not realize an agreed upon easily discernible prophylatic has not been used makes no difference - there has to be general bright line rule and the rule must be made with the idea, as concerns consensual sexual relations, that both participants are employing their full range of senses.

I believe that in some jurisdictions a male can be held accountable for an unwanted pregancy despite that males' reliance on the females' assertions that non-discernible measures have been taken to prevent a pregnancy.

No ewent, that's not how the laws read. Swedish law says having unprotected sex AGAINST the wishes of your partner is a criminal act. You have to read the laws correctly.

JDN...What BS.....Are you saying that Assange was in Sweden and didn't know the Swedish laws on unprotected sex? Using ignorance or feigning it is just an excuse for lack of responsibility. Whether or not he removed the condom isn't the problem....the problem is that Assange removed it....knowing Swedish laws on doing so. You want to bend Swedish law for Assange too? Or do you just like the idea that it's so much easy to dump all responsibility for sex on the woman so that the man can roam the planet as carefree as a bird and exempt from all responsibility for his own actions? Your post is so typical of the male who tries to escape responsibility. Sorry, not this time.

And what happens if the condom breaks, as we all know they can occasionally do? Does that also make him a rapist and criminal hunted by Interpol?

JD: you have had some "real" sex, with a live woman, right?

ewent - if the woman didn't tell Assange to stop when he removed the condom then she consented to sex without the condom. It's pretty simple.

AP - I've been married thirty years.

Chris, my man, you are a delightful breath of fresh air. I salute you and your good sense.

JDN: Maybe precisely because you've been married 30 years, you ought to know better than that. Do you actually assume women mean yes unless and until they say otherwise?

The Lunatic...Then you also must agree that if HE decided on the unprotected sex and SHE got pregnant, Julie Boy would be a Daddy, have to support the child he sired and spend the rest of his life taking care of his spawn?

I just have to ask you, what are you babbling about?

About people like you probably

etothex- totally agree. If you are having sex with strangers- deal with the consequences. You don't know them! Contracts seem ludricrous. Let's not act as if women don't do things wrong sometimes. Has a woman ever -not taken the pill- without her boyfriend etc knowing? You can't manage this in a legal sytem. That's ridiculous. Make better decisions about who you have sex with. Know the risks. There is a risk of pregnancy or disease with condoms. You want to take the chance. That's your decision. It's not rape if it backfires.

Katie...Sweden is likely one of the most sexually free societies in the world. However, Sweden doesn't want to pay for sexually transmitted diseases. It's a small country that can afford to offer free healthcare. Their attitudes about sex are not nearly as archaic as some people in the US. Yet, Sweden doesn't have the huge numbers of unmarried women in that country either. I have a relative who lives in that country. Women in Sweden are considered the heads of household. Not men. Yet, the men are unfazed by that as men in the US would be imploding with indignation at the very idea.

As a matter of fact, Swedish men are quite virile compared to American men. Could be their healthier environment, who knows? It would be perfectly lovely if women could be open and above board with men at all times. I'm probably a lot older than you. Unfortunately, the problem lies with men and their need for that inherent secrecy. Younger women feel that if a guy can't be honest and sincere, they don't have to be either. That's a bit of a stretch for older women who were taught never to lie. It may also be the reason younger guys go for the Cougars. It's a walk down memory lane for younger guys to be able to put one over on a woman and get away with it. So they figure it's easier to do with a woman who was never taught to play the man's game the man's way.

Look up the movie "Cherry 2000". The guys go to a bar and have lawyers present to negotiate sex between adults. The sarcasm is hilarious, there is even a rider attached to one contract for "cuddling afterward" and the woman goes nuts.

Event

You are so SMART! You seem to have an opinion about everyone's post, and lots of time on your hands as well. Not to mention the passion with which you are engaged here. Therefore, I am wary of your comments. I bet that evil men and evil women exist in the same percentage. I also believe that most people form their opinions about this topic from a negative experience rather than a positive. What is the genesis of your obsession, Event? PS, you will never know my gender and please dont be so smart to guess, you'll just prove my point.

@ewent - So its all mens fault. Women are infallible?

No. They're just VERY clear on who has to deal with the consequences.

"it is gender democracy which has rendered me a bachelor/loner since 1992 (nearly 20 years)."

No its because women don't like you

etotex...Most women know each other well enough to handle our intergender difficulties. Men are unwilling to learn to compromise. It's their way or the highway. With such absolutes in place, you know any college educated, career woman earning her own money and paying her own bills who would want a guy who can't compromise? By the way, most women are smart enough to recognize guys who are control freaks. Most men find one way or another to have the upper hand...And, to paraphrase that actress in that Seinfeld episode...."you're gonna need it".

usually it is the woman who finds a way to get the upper hand as you put it.

Corey...Okay...And why do you suppose that is? Is it because men are predictable? Transparent? As a woman raised in a man's world, I know every trick in their book. But, it never helped when I was dating and married. Why? Women are notoriously too emotional for their own good and allow their emotions to cloud their judgements. I have always respected men who had a sense of morals and honesty. I detest men who think every day is a game with them always trying to put one over on some unsuspecting woman. I've never been an unsuspecting woman. I'm as unpredictable as my brothers raised me to be. I'm also as contentious about my own sense of morals, ethics and values as my brothers taught me to be. I've learned a lifetime worth of things from men. Some good, some bad.

I'm mostly attracted to the brainy guys who can put a rational sentence together, substantiate it and then bless it and set it free without any hesitation.

Gender Democracy has kept women away from you for 20 years?

Well, now, I hate to break it to you, but perhaps the real problem you're facing isn't with the women?

@ewent - I can't even express how illogical, and foolish your comments are. I can only assume you are a young guy trolling. There is no way an educated, intelligent women would accuse all men as being controlling. Using your logic then I will have to say that all women are gold diggers, all blacks are crackheads, all priests are pedophiles, no whites can play basketball (bad example). I think you get the drift.

I am sorry your father, stepfather, lover, or spouse was bad to you. The problem is even in that situation you stayed and let the abuse continue till it changed your feelings towards all men. We all play a part in every situation in our lives. The choices we make, how we react, etc.

ewent:

Most women know each other well enough to handle our intergender difficulties.

I'm sorry, what? I've seen men fight, and I've seen women fight. Men will be knock-down drag-out for a few minutes (or days if it's social), and then end up with a grudging respect, or at least an established pecking order. When women fight, it's all out war. They'll be in the trenches for years! They form alliances and treaties and will attack friends, families, and co-workers that aren't even involved. For men, it's a brief power struggle with stability afterward. For women, it's a war of attrition!

I'm mostly attracted to the brainy guys who can put a rational sentence together, substantiate it and then bless it and set it free without any hesitation.

That's apparently much more than you can do.

(Ewent) If you think women do not take advantage of men you are very wrong. If you know every trick in the book and do not use them, That means you are a decent person. A lot of women are not emotional, they are capeable of being quite cold and calculating. As for the women I like, they need to be nice, meaning morally decent. I have been extremly gullable, and lots of women have taken advantage of me. I can't seem to find anyone. So I am still looking some day I might get lucky.

Corey: I know we are now WAYYY off point, but if you're looking for women, here's a BIG tip. They're not terribly attracted as a rule to men who think all women are controlling, emotional, cold and calculating users. (just saying.)

And if he (Michael Moore) can rape the system and the willing while making a few bucks as he was fleecing the moviegoers and politically biased, then he really didn't do anything wrong, did he?

If there ever was a dumb American, Michael Moore is the poster boy! That idiot is only followed by lesser idiots. For those that haven't a clue, that is your problem, not mine.

lol, so true Wade, Michael Moore is an embarrassment to anyone with real concern about knowing the truth of a matter

maggie...Assange is a covert control freak. He thinks he has rights to do things no one else has. As for women, he has no real respect for their rights or their wishes. That proves he's a control freak. No matter what anyone says, he is going to do with them what he pleases....I believe that's as close to rape as it needs to get.

I agree with you though. Assange is not exactly Orlando Bloom, Johnny Depp or Denzell Washington.

Katie...Assange refused to follow what he had to have known was Swedish law...unprotected sex is a crime in that country. He broke their laws. And, if she got pregnant and sued him for child support, he'd be the first little coward to claim it wasn't his kid. That's how diseased this guy's brain is. And, that's why he is so dangerous. He demands responsibility from everyone else...just not himself.

Welll there's an unusual definition of rape: being able to "leave the situation without harm". Sounds like you have a very different definition of "harm" and not one I'd accept.

HotTicket...Right and that's why women are fed up with the MascuNazis, Bully boys, whimps and cowards like Assange who pass for males these days. Who do you think you're kidding? If one of those two women he claims not to have raped got pregnant, he'd have run like a rabbit from his responsibilities. Guys like you want the fun of sex. You just don't want any responsibility for the outcome of your own behavior. Time to grow up and Manup.

ewent, speak for yourself you frikin nut job. You don't speak for all women. You're crazy. I mean, after reading your posts you are absolutely out of your bean, lady..

Corey....The problem with Americans is we think that our laws are the laws around the world. When in Rome...as the saying goes. No one with a conscience wants to see any innocent man blamed for something he hasn't done. But, let's not pretend that Assange is an endearing, adorable little boy who just happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. That doesn't stand up in a court of law and you know it. He's an instigator of his own troubles.

Perhaps he is, maybe he is a loser, but in this country one is innocent until proven guilty. He seems to be convicted already. Interesting laws they have in sweden.

Jeff...Thank you. You restore my faith that not all men are without the ability to apply cognitive reasoning. As a woman, I get so fed up with the guys who act like big babies. Fun and games is what they are all about until they are confronted with the error of their ways. It's only the intelligent guys like yourself who apply common sense to situations.

Don't take the bait, Jeff. And if you do...Don't do it in Sweden!

Well said again.

JLC....using the word "rape" bothers you? How about you become far more bothered by the women violated by men and left for dead afterward? How about you become more alert to how men exploit women as sex objects to make themselves richer than God? Please....more women are raped by men who exploit their gender than women who use the word rape frequently.

Rape is a word that implies one nut job is trying desperately to find control of another human being. That's the real stupidity. There is no way one human being will ever control another. Yet, men go to the ends of the earth to prove they can. How utterly hideously stupid.

Don't be so closed minded many women are control freaks too. If you think a man cannot be controled and abused, you are wrong.

Corey: really, dude. You need to find somewher to work out these issues you have

David...Back up just a little. This QB...Did he have brains? Was he unable to speak? Unable to use that word men so detest in their lives? "NO". If you are implying that a handful of golddiggers are to blame for his inability to stand on the courage of his own convictions, morals and ethics, please give it up.

Men can and should say know, walk away from the situation and never look back. Men are not victims they like to portray themselves to be. As a woman, I can't stand female gold diggers. In the end, a gold digger is no happier after the conquest as she was before.

ewent I hope my sons steer clear of a woman like you, I would be devastated if they were ever abused; by such a negative, verbal abuser.

Jami5...I have 2 sons....Both free and happy. You sound like the typical oppressed married woman who has to defend excuses for her unhappiness. Funny how you find truth abusive when I find it refreshing. I speak my mind. Don't you? Oh..right. Not allowed to. Big Daddy laid the law down...You said, "I do." and his response was "You'd better." Perhaps, your sons will find women they can push around who will post their angst like their future mother-in-law?

I am sorry to hear you livein such a marriage,how closed minded can you get. I have seen very few resonable comments on here but yours by far are the most negative, I bet your sons are miserable, my sisters are and she talks just like she says the same things to them she says to everyone else. I like have a man that acts like a man I don't need a slave andneither does he;your feminst laws have only helped the selfish lying race they have done nothing for women who are honest. I know 11 years in a bad marriage, and being raised by alot of women who needed their rights protected, only so they could turn around and take away they childrens rights and the rights of other children, has taught me much. You people don't demand equal rights. You want control and your own selfish desires; the same as everyone else.

I walk past girls and boys alike who pay everyday for youe equal rights. Just selfish, there are worse things than going hungry. You know the victims of verbal abuse quiteoften want to take their own lives maybe you batter check on your sons

Jamie, I agree.

Ewent, see my prior post above.

(ewent) Men can be victims.

Men can be victims. A male member of my family was molested by a female nurse in a while in a hospital for mental health problems. It happened many years ago in the 60's and he was laughed at and told to 'enjoy the freebie' but it had a lasting negative effect on him especially since he never found anyone who thought it was anything to be serious about until later in his life.

Ewent: Now watch that "typical oppressed married" stuff...some of us are just cranky...

but seriously, I hope what you see here doesn't discourage you. I hope, like me, you don't encounter the kind of mysogeny you read here (not all of it from men). Anonymity brings out the excess in some people, particularly those who are just casting about for someone to blame their misery on. Lets just hope your sons, and my son and daughter, will find the world that's at least begun to leave this nonsense behind.