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By Marian Smith, msnbc.com
LONDON – Before he was elected to the White House, Barack Obama drew 200,000 ecstatic fans during a 2008 visit to Berlin. Analysts predicted he would have easily been elected France's president if he had been a candidate there. And the day after Obama's election triumph, practically every U.K. newspaper splashed his picture across their front pages.
Europe had fallen in love.
Two years later, Obama is struggling at home. With the midterms looming, the president's approval rating is at just 47 percent and most indicators suggest that the Democrats will take a hit on Tuesday.
Many Europeans don't get it.
"They're very confused as to how [Americans] could vote for Obama and then two years later turn around and vote for a completely different set of policies," Sarah Oates, professor of political communication the University of Glasgow, told msnbc.com.
When viewed from abroad, Obama's campaign promises of "hope" and "change" left Europeans expecting a fundamental shift in American politics.
"[People here] are just dismayed," Oates added. "There's a real feeling of ... disappointment that it didn't signal the change they thought it would."
Plummeting fortunes
Normally, congressional elections don't resonate much abroad.
But Europe's love affair with Obama – and interest in his plummeting fortunes – mean that midterms seem to be getting more coverage than usual in the U.K. and across the continent. In the wake of financial crisis, Europeans also wonder how the vote in America will affect the global economy.
French and British newspapers have been covering the run-up to the vote for weeks, with Tuesday's showdown already occasionally making the front page. In Germany, TV news channels are reporting regularly on U.S. politics and newspaper editorials have focused on the Tea Party movement and the perception that conservatism is growing in America.
On Thursday, the websites of the BBC and the London-based Guardian, Telegraph and Times newspapers all prominently featured stories about Obama's appearance on "The Daily Show."
'He's not Mr Miracle'
But with the economic crisis and wars in Iraq and Afghanistan casting a shadow over his presidency, Obama's reputation has also suffered abroad.
"He is no longer seen as an icon, but as a politician who is doing his very best," said Christian Malard, senior foreign analyst on France 3 TV. "He is paying the price for the crisis. He's not Mr Miracle, he's not a prophet."
However, Obama remains broadly well-liked and many Europeans think the disenchantment that many American voters have been expressing is unfair.
"What he inherited was so enormous that no American president could have fixed it," Manfred Gortemaker, professor of modern history at Germany's University of Potsdam, told msnbc.com.
Meanwhile, those who got caught up in the "Yes, we can" fever of 2008 simply want to know what will happen to their star.
"Obama is like a movie character," said Nicole Bacharan, a historian, political analyst and associate researcher at the Institute of Political Studies in Paris. "There is something very romantic about him and his fate is something that people want to know. Why is this young, attractive, very smart president struggling?"
Tea Party rhetoric
Many Europeans are also wondering whether the Tea Party is simply a phenomenon born from the financial crisis, or whether its rise signals a broader, lasting, more radical conservative movement.
"In all the French newspapers and magazines, people are writing, trying to figure it out," Bacharan said.
While the economic downturn has sparked severe spending cuts from Ireland to Greece and renewed questions over European-style "big government", a Tea Party-like movement hasn't emerged on the continent.
But Europeans have noticed that some opponents of the Tea Party are being demonized as "socialist". That rhetoric has at times included references to far more sinister chapters in history. An editorial in Germany's Der Spiegel newspaper last week slammed the Tea Party’s references to Adolf Hitler and Nazi Germany when criticizing the Obama administration’s policies as being irresponsible, flippant and ignorant.
"The Holocaust was the result of murderous ideological fanaticism of the kind not to be found in leaders forced to face re-election every four years," the newspaper's editorial said. "It is hard to imagine even the most hard-bitten Tea Party activist sincerely believing that President Barack Obama wants to systematically murder over 6 million people like Adolf Hitler did. And that is necessarily the implication."
Obama's more liberal policies also resonated with many Europeans. With polls suggesting the Democrats could lose control of the House, Professor Oates said the idea that many of his plans could potentially never come into effect baffles some people.
"It's hard for them to understand the frailty of the American presidency," she said.
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Obama was only elected because the media fleeced the sheep in this country. The media refused to do their job of vetting the campaigner in chief on the campaign trail (see the Journolist listserv). If ordinary Americans , still slumbering at the time, knew what Obama was during the campaign he would have been crushed. When Obama yanked this center-right country of America to the left he awoke a sleeping dragon ready to swallow him alive. As an American all I can say to Europe is F-YOU, keep your socialist crap on your side of the pond and continue to wallow in your insignificance. Time for America to go back to the principles she was founded upon.
You are exactly what is wrong with America, your words are just that, words and hollow. The conservatives has no real plan, no optimism and are hypocritical. Our fundamental freedoms are intact but as it goes there is the Constitution of 1776, 1865, 1935, 1965 etc. we can change with the times or disappear with it, we can’t live in the past. We need to look forward to what this country needs to be and not try to go back to what it was. So says this independent republican.
Of course the Euro-saps love him, Obama wanted to model America into the looser Euro-socialist nanny state. Misery loves company.
Fishlore, You live in a mythological world. If that is true than the same thing happened to George W. Bush.
Personally, I don't think any of them was elected by media hype. I think those that voted against Bush and Obama just don't want to deal with the reality that the person they wanted to win, lost. Simple as that. You'll see the same thing happen on Tuesday. Sore winners and losers who will make up reasons to justify things in their own minds. Welcome to being human.
The rest of your post is biased diatribe, so all I can say is good luck on Tuesday.
Now to the actual topic of the article, WHAT A CONCEPT?! The mistake Europeans make is the mistake all foreigners seem to make about other countries. The US makes those mistakes, other countries do, etc. And the mistake is that they aren't biased with their own self interests as to who is President. We thought Gorbachev was amazing, in the '80s. Meanwhile he was hated in Russia. What is interesting about Gorbachev is he turned out to be right, but when the wall came down, even he wasn't listened to (he wanted a gradual transition. Instead it was a stampede for the door).
Another example is current French President Nicolas Sarkozy. He is trying to bring an American style capitalism in France. We think that it is brilliant and have warmed to new French ideas, meanwhile there are riots in the streets as the retirement age is being considered to be pushed to 62 from 60. So, Europeans have to realize (and we all should) that the interests and ideals of one nation, where they compete with those of another, are going to show the differences in culture. Even to Europeans, for example, they can't get a grasp on why exactly the government couldn't get public health care (as they understand it) through the system with a 'super majority' They, in fact, still don't even understand how much has changed with the new health care laws...because it falls short of health care as they understand it.
Anyway, onward and upward. Interesting article, overall.
Fishlore,
You're the exact reason this country is in decline. Oh BTW F-You!
The Europeans look at Obama as one might look at some seemingly hot chick in a bar after a few drinks. Oh yeah, from a distance, what a knockout, but get her home and go out on a date or two and then you realize just what a miracle makeup and alcohol can perform.
Oh no, Chuck - you are. YOU! Out of the gene pool!
The right has a plan, alright, but it's a death spiral for most of us. Those who plan to return the cause of their sorrows to office are getting ready to shoot themselves in the second foot, having learned NOTHING from blowing off the first one.
The right CAN'T CHANGE what must be changed to create jobs without losing the support of the big businesses that fund them. Offshoring, outsourcing and automation must be regulated to create the jobs which make a customer base possible- with no jobs, there are no customers- and it doesn't matter how cheaply you can make a product if no one buys it. The SAME root cause explains why few new businesses are being launched. There are some great ideas out there going unrealized because no market exists for them.
There are only two possibilities here: either the CEO's and BOD's of these corporations understand know exactly what they are doing- manipulating the election by amplifying the jobless social disaster they created; or they are too stupid to understand the eventual culmination of the processes they set in motion- and are slashing their own wrists in order to sell the resulting carnage for short term profit- which is often used to buy political influence.
Both possibilities require the same response- when corporate citizens voluntarily choose to make themselves enemies of the state by attempting to gain control over it by fiscal means, they need to be tried and if necessary executed as traitors. Corporations have crossed a lethal line by seeking totalitarian control over most Americans- in some cases virtually reinventing slavery at the few workplaces remaining when they can't literally purchase those slaves in other countries.
If we don't wake up soon, we'll be put to sleep forever- and a beautiful experiment will die on the alter of greed.
Fishlore,
The right-wing doesn't have the foggiest clue what principles this country was founded on. You quote the constitution like you quote your bible- you read the words but you don't know the meaning of the words. The unfortunate thing is; we are straddled with ignorant, backward thinking group who refuse to get with the program. The Tea Party isn't new. It's the same bunch of bigots that formed the No-Nothings, The John Birch Soc., the KKK and ignited the Civil War. They will never open their minds to anything. People voted for Obama because they didn't want this country to slip back to the 19th century. I'm sure the Tea Party will win some spots, but after 6 months; people (the real, normal, hardworking people) will see what they really are- a bunch of bigots only interested in inflicting a hillbilly agenda. Enjoy your upsurge- it won't last.
This bravado that we should grab our muskets and retreat to the 18th. century will not solve our economic problems. Obama was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for a very good reason; he has given the World hope. After the previous administration, Europeans want to love America again. Obama brings that hope. To think that there is no Global Economy is nieve. To have America lead that economy is smart.
Fish, you are 100% correct. Morons elected this socialist. And all of Europe is not thrilled with Obama or socialism. Thats bunk. There are plenty of people here and there that do not like either one.
Sean, was it not the Democratic party that made up the KKK and owned slaves?
Guy, I think he was awarded the Nobel prize (the committee is extremely left wing and socialist) for his potential to do something great. He had not actually done anything to that point. LOL!
I do not have any interest in our President, or his policies, failing. If they fail, my quality of life will decline. I am a fiscal conservative, but I know that historically the deficit spending policies are the most successful way to restart our economic engine. It is warming up now. Now we will see if our government can reign in the purse strings and help us return to a time of economic prosperity.
Guy Butler - so Nobel Peace prizes are given out for inspiring "hope" now? What happened to waiting for someone to actually accomplish something BEFORE they get an award.
Obama may deserve it after his Presidency but what did he actually DO to deserve the award?
"Obama is like a movie character," said Nicole Bacharan, "There is something very romantic about him and his fate is something that people want to know. Why is this young, attractive, very smart president struggling?"
That's how he won. By being a movie star and bringing out the voters who didn't have a clue about politics and never voted before in their lives. America doesn't need a movie star we have plenty of them. We need a leader and this president is far from that!
Christ we can't even get acurate information here in the states with each side spewing so many lies and the Europeans think they know whats going on? Give me a break!
I voted for Obama...I am not an idiot....Obama won because he was the lesser of the two evils...no one is perfect, except for Jesus Christ, I am still waiting to hear anything substantial from this "Tea Party" and all I hear are sound bites and a bunch of rhetoric. We have REAL problems in this country and we need REAL people to solve them and lead us in bad times and good times and so far I do not get any of that from this "Tea Party"..to me they all sound like a bunch of lunatics. I am an independent and I'd vote for Obama again....I mean John McCain and Sarah Palin..a senile old man and a retard....get REAL!
why was this string collapsed? I don't see anything inflammatory aside for the fact that it does not exactly support Obama's agenda.
Queenie, before judging the Tea Party based on the media's portrayal of those involved, do a little research yourself and check out the candidates and the Tea Party homepage.
A lot of the platforms are appealing to a lot of people. Some are not. Almost none are appealing to the mainstream press or either party (republican or democrat), so what you see and read about are the extremes.
Fyou Fishlore..you dont speak for America thats for sure you butt slice
Big B, I have to respond to the zombie tripe about democrats being slave owners. Yes it is true that in the 1800's the South was largely made of Democrats - BUT - the party was largely divided over the issue of slavery. So much so that Dems in the North were resolute abolitionists, as were many Republicans of the time. Following the Civil War, the Democratic party began fracturing even more. This trend continued through the 20th century right up into the modern civil rights era. The Republicans also were splintering within their ranks over their ideals.
During the 60's there were defections from both parties. The Democratic "Solid South" largely left the party over conflicts with Northern Dems who favored civil rights. Meanwhile the Republicans enacted their "Southern Strategy" to make inroads into the South. They scooped up the Democratic defectors. Many Northern Republicans who favored civil rights left the party at this time to join the Northern Dems. Today the South is largely the bastion of Republicans, while the North East is largely Democratic. I don't think I need to comment on modern regional views of equallity and civil rights.
So while you may be technically correct that 150 years ago it was the Dems who largely owned slaves and that it was a Democratic governor who in the 60's blocked those kids from going to school in Little Rock, your point is largely lost in light of the full history. Your point, of course, being that modern Dems are descended from slave owners, is rendered absurd when in fact modern Dems are descended from abolitionists and it is in fact the modern Republican party that has descended from those that blocked civil rights and expounded the virtues of slavery.
That is how you kill a zombie lie. Unfortunately zombies multiply and I will assuredly have to decapitate more of them.
Hey, "Yea Right", How's this for change for your sorry butt:
The following is from Neal Boortz' website:
It took from 1776 until 1990 for the federal government to accumulate a total of $3 trillion in debt. It took 22 months for Barack Obama to add another $3 trillion to the federal debt. Now there's a real over-achiever for you! And of course we absolutely positively needed to spend every single cent. Not one penny was wasted!
This level of spending is unacceptable for any elected official past, present and future. It needs to be said that Obama didn't do this all by himself. George Bush didn't double the size of the federal government all by himself either. It doesn't matter what your political party, if you're part of the problem party affiliation means nothing. The main blame here gets assigned to our Congress. More specifically, the House of Representatives ... under Democrat ownership since 2007. ALL spending bills must originate here. It's one part of our Constitution we still seem to pay attention to. So as long as we're paying attention, let's look again at these figures from the Wall Street Journal,
_____
Vote all incumbents that are the cause of this problem out of office November 2nd, starting with Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, and Barney Frank. Then vote Obama out of office in 2012. In addition to the above problem, they are also for amnesty for illegal aliens so they can be re-elected with their help. The travesty of a healthcare bill would not have passed if they did not bribe senators to get their vote. Vote them out! Thank you!
FU This and FU that....don't you realize you're all just giving in to what the main problem is in this country-divisiveness? I've never seen such fanatical people.
1. The media assuredly lied to people about Obama. I was born and raised in Chicago, so I know the imaginary hype people had for him. "He has the best economists on his team; you need to re-evaluate how you vote". "He is comparable to Jesus Christ". These are things I actually heard myself, and it made me sick to my stomach as I watched all of the lies and rhetoric Obama spewed. Nobody once questioned him on what he planned to change.
2. Obama does not speak to the people of this country. His rehetoric in speeches indicates that he is speaking to people that have more power than him; a comforting "please, please let me keep this job". When he does speak to the American people we get to hear things like "Republicans will be sitting at the back of the bus" "he acted stupidly" and other cruel comments. His wife tells me not to eat butter or salt, but enjoys plenty herself.
3. Obama gets mad because he IS a liar, and while we're all sitting here trying to shuffle through the garbage journalism this country has, he passes orders behind our backs, in the middle of night.
As far as healthcare goes, I am actually sick. I actually have to go to doctors 2-3 times a week right now, and I can tell you healthcare is destroyed. Now, if you have ever had a serious problem, you know our healthcare is NOT the best (If it is, I feel sorry for the rest of the world). Socialized medicine doesn't change that-it exacerbates the situation.
The Federal Government is a disgrace. As a Politics Major with a double major in Religious Studies, I DO know quite a bit of history- I read my Bible and my Constitution the same way- as a historical document. The difference is the Bible has not been a living document since the Dark Ages and the Constitution will always be a living document. The Founding Fathers WOULD be extremely upset with the quasi-corporatist/elitist government we have succumbed to.
Freedom is worth fighting for. I've heard people be afraid to vote with their values because they are scared of retaliation by a democrat. We've boiled over the edge. But the same goes for Republicans. Those of you that try to disengage the similarities between Bush and Obama only care about party lines. The government was infiltrated and has been run by corporations since 2005, and I DON'T see Obama stopping any of it.
Grow up, realize that fighting amongst each other is just another distraction.
There are 2 types of Americans today...those that work for the government and derive the best of salaries, benefits and pensions and those that pay for it.
Unless the private sector begins to grow there will be a problem to pay for the overbloated government salaries, pensions and waste on every level. We are watching cities and states issuing bonds not to pay for roads, hospitals and infrastucture but to pay for government pensions.
Europeans simply cannot understand the angst that many Americans in the private sector feel because Europeans have a safety net...in the USA only our public sector has that.
What the euro's need to understand is that hard-working, law-abiding, bill-paying citizens are being betrayed by a government that is not allowing the economy to "collapse" as a course of normal market forces. Our current government structure is willing to let folks that pay their bills to suffer the indignity of having their taxes pay for "shortfalls" in other people's lives that bought all of the "stuff" they "deserved". We are going to now "restructure" people's mortgages they cannot pay to prop-up our housing numbers? With tax dollars? Meanwhile, if you didn't buy that 600K house and the Range Rover, and you can still pay your way, well, the message is - piss-off, if you think you can get your mortgage restructured. These are not the rules, this is not the way things should work in a fair and equitable country.
In the words of Will Ferrell -- "I feel like I am taking crazy pills!":-)
I have spent some time in Northern Europe - they pay their bills - usually with cash - credit cards are for losers there - cash is lord of the realm. If they fully understood what is happening here with public funds paying for personal debt, they would understand the conservative ground-swell. From what I can tell, their media has no understanding of this, and they(media) cannot pass on what they have not taken the time to understand.
If Europe wants to understand what is happening to Obama, go to youtube and search "The Obama Deception". This documentary explains how a president call fall from 68% approval to 41%approval in two years. He mis-lead the population to get elected, just like every other politicain before him, there was NO CHANGE!
Radagast...you zombie killer, you! Doesn't it seem funny that when talking about all Democrats being slave owners you are quick to defend and deny. But all Tea Party members are thugs, bigots, racists, misogynists, neanderthal, woman beaters. Double standard much?
You may need to bring a bigger axe next time.
Big B, it's not denial, it's American Political History. Ignoring this history could more accurately be called denial. Double standard indeed. Say what you want, the facts bear out what I have summarized. It's called a zombie lie because no matter how often it is debunked it keeps coming back to life. Perhaps a little honesty and due-diligence towards the truth on the part of those who repeat these lies would go a long way to their eradication. But those who use them don't often care about accuracy, they just care about making an emotional impact with the lie. In this case the impact is to falsely accuse the modern democratic party of historical bigotry as a way of deflecting those same modern accusations away from the GOP. It's bunk. The GOP of Lincoln long since defected and made inroads into the democratic party, forever changing it. The democrats are the true party of Lincoln. The GOP just shares its name with the historical party of abolitionists. They abandonded those ideals over half a century ago.
If you want to accuse me of a double standard you have to dig a lot harder than that. If I accuse someone of being a bigot, I don't falsely rely on historical myths to make my point, I simply allow that person to demonstrate it with their present actions and words. Not all tea party members are bigots, but they certainly seem to go out of their way to defend them and they seem to be often swayed by bigoted words. That raises questions in my mind.
Radagast, this thread is getting a bit old, so I hope you see this. Your point is well made. I did use an over generalization to make a point, but my point is valid also.
Mainstream media makes the Tea Party members out to be James Crowe incarnate and that, in my experience, is not true. That myth is propagated by some of the more outspoken members of the left leaning media. Many people sympathize more with the TP's political agenda (fiscal responsibility, less bureaucracy, transparency) than with their social agenda.
We are told that if we disagree with Obama's policies or agenda, we are racist. If you are a minority and you disagree with him then you are an "Uncle Tom". That is where the division lies.
I hope calmer heads prevail and we are able to return to a more peaceful exchange of ideas. Good luck to you and your party this upcoming election. We are Americans, first and foremost.
How many electoral votes does Germany have again?
Touche'. The bottom line is that amidst the rhetoric of "Hope and Change", Obama NEVER ONCE explained what his intent to "Change" was. Now that the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of American citizens know what he meant by "Change", we want no part of it.
Europeans don't understand because they already live in a socialist state.
Look at a republican and you will see a fascist !
Europe is capitalist with good social programs so I guess in your view, we are socialists. Capitalist countries have created social programs, morons, to better the lives of their people !
Notasocialist - well, you've declared yourself. And by the way, neither is President Obama.
But President Obama DID declare his policy goals during the campaign. He campaigned on extending health insurance to those who don't have it, and he did. he campaigned on financial reforms, and he signed that law into effect. He campaigned on tax cuts for the middle class, and he did it.
Here's a link to a list of 122 campaign promises kept:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/rulings/promise-kept/
It's OK to have an opinion about the President - but it's not OK to lie.
"
I lawled when I read that. American's love affair with swings does not stop at Elementary school. :3
Most Americans are ignorant people that mostly vote based on fear. Whoever seems less scary gets the vote, so whoever smears his opponent better has the most chances of being elected.
They won't question our enormous defense budget or the billions lost in stupid wars, but any imbecile that cannot find Iran in a map, would lecture you about how bad the health-care plan is, the same plan he cannot understand in first place.
It's too bad the European papers and analysts didn't have the guts to say what the Tea Party really is.
A bunch of fake angered racists. The economy is slowly getting better and to think that anyone could have done better as President would be wishful thinking. To blame this president because the jobs are slow to materialize is hypocritical to what the President wants to do but can't because of the Rethuglican obstructionists. No energy bill which would be a big job creator, because big oil has most politicians in their back pockets. If you say you are a tea partier but not a racist, not only are you a racist but also a spineless liar.
romilio; That same health care plan that they had to vote in first before they could see what is in it? Only pelosi understood that plan.
notasocialist - are you really sure you want to out yourself as an idiot? I mean, anyone who actually FOLLOWED the 2008 election knew EXACTLY what his plans were. If you didnt know, you werent actually paying attention.
Congrats you tool, you're part of the actual problem - the voters who simply dont pay attention, go vote, and then complain "what, this isnt what I voted for!"
Im willing to bet that when the tea party takes control and tries to repeal the 20th century - along with everything except for the bloated, wasteful, incompetent military...you'll be singing the same stupid tune wont you?
"If you say you are a tea partier but not a racist, not only are you a racist but also a spineless liar."
Hmm. Something's wrong here, but I can't quite put my finger on it.
"If you say you are a Muslim but not a terrorist, not only are you a terrorist but also a spineless liar."
Ahh, there it is!
Not a Socialist - Obama was VERY CLEAR about his goals for the next 4 years and campaigned on these very issues of providing Health Care, help to get the economy going again, reduce the debt left by Bush's policies, etc. The REPUBLICANS left the country truly in shambles. Is 18 months with absolutely no help from the REPUBLICANS long enough? I don't think so.
Barry's a socialist, and I would never expect Republicans to help him. He didn't need them when he had the Congress by a majority's balls and he's beyond working with them now, so what the hell?
I hope he fails.
Not a Socialist-1286940
Hate to break this to you buddy, if you pay income tax, your a socialist. You should probably learn to deal with it. We live in a Constituional Representative Republic which has enacted social programs (for better or worse). So not only are we NOT a democracy federally, but we also are Socialist for our Fire & Police protection, military protection & the SS/Medicare to elderly. Everyone of those makes you a socialist, 'Not a Socialist'
jwhite1083
lawled?? But as Albert Einstein once said, "Politics is a pendulum whose swings between anarchy and tyranny are fueled by perpetually rejuvenated illusions."
Handgunner
You want our President, & thus our country, to fail?? How completely Un-American of you. Oh & btw, your a socialist too. That is, if you pay your taxes.
I find it amusing that Europe offers its political opinion on our political agenda. Who cares what you think! Europeans flip-flop more than anybody
notasocialist don't let the rifle dropping, socialistic, cheese eaters bother you. You are correct!
John-
In the 21st century if the only card you have to play against someone politically is the race card then you need to walk away from the game.
Are there racists in the Tea Party? Yes, just like there are racists in the Republican Party, the Democratic Party, and every other political party out there.
To claim that all Tea Partiers are racists is as ignorant as claiming that all Democrats are black.
If you want to bring race into things though how about President Obama himself going on a Hispanic media outlet and encouraging Hispanic voters to go to the polls and punish their 'enemies'.
He's blatantly using racial scare tactics trying to get hispanics to vote against Republicans.
Europeans have a fundamentally different world view than we do. Not better, not worse, just different. Maybe the effect of two world wars fought on their soil. Maybe the history of being ruled by kings and various dictators over the centuries. Europeans are no smarter than we are; stop feeling inferior to Europeans. In general, they have much more severe structural problems than the US, although recently they are starting to change to a more free market orientation.
Americans have always been more independent and individualistic than Europeans. We have always wanted less government interference. We have always wanted the freedom to earn our own living and keep what we make. This goes back to the pioneer days and plays out today with our entrepreneurs. Like Europe, our elections swing to the left and then to the right and back again, but our fundamental DNA is different because our history is so different.
I don't believe Obama is a socialist, but I don't want to live with a European style government and tax policies. I think Obama and his crowd misread the 2008 results. We wanted to get rid of George Bush and incompetent government. That is very different from wanting a much larger and more expensive government.
I am hoping he pulls a Clinton and starts governing from the Center after the elections.
A lot of Obama's perception problems at home and abroad stem from the insane expectations that a completely adoring and unobjective media set for him. Let him get smacked around a bit. Americans love a comeback story.
John,
You are delusional. Democrats held a majority in both houses for the last two years and have a Democratic president. If they didn't do what they said, then that is their own fault. Deflecting the blame where it squarely belongs on the Democrats just makes you look like the spineless liar and calling Republicans every name in the book just makes you look pathetic. Grow up and take some responsibilities for your party.
Well it's good he hasn't made a 'larger & more expensive' government. Bush Jr owns 87% of the 2009 fiscal year budget, he signed it, he had two wars on it & he had eight years of his policies on it (which inlcuded the Bailout which he signed as he was running from office & this economic disaster)
The other 13% you ask? Obama's $200Billion in Stimulus spending in fiscal year 2009
THE WORST DEFICIT IN HISTORY (2009) is 87% Bush Jr's. 13% Obama's. 2010 budget already showed a reduction & Obama has MULTIPLE panels gettign back to him at the end of this year on how to reduce their internal spending. Obama is the reason we will be able to reduce this deficit. Believe it
"If you say you are a Muslim but not a terrorist, not only are you a terrorist but also a spineless liar."
Ahh, there it is!
There it isn't; Muslims have been around longer than this Country. Don't you find it interesting that the tea party if it didn't evolve after Obama was elected it sure took off. Most of these lame brains still think TARP was done under Obama. Some of these idiots don't seem to know that 1/3 of the stimulus was used to put $400.00 extra into the pockets of middle class Americans. Think what you want about Health care reform, but again don't you find it interesting that all these republicans want to repeal it.
The Insurance lobby has been stuffing politicians pockets so they can just keep screwing us. I would prefer Nationalized health care and let the insurance companies deal with insurance for materialistic things.
Well said Gary.
With the swing in the midterms, I hope Obama will be forced to govern more moderately and I hope Congress will still be able to get things done.
But if Obama keeps calling Republicans "the enemy" and Republicans just keep saying "no" without offering real solutions, our country will suffer. We have too many serious issues to play partisan politics for another 2 years.
Wow, the extreme left failed governments in Europe don't get it ???
I would suggest Europeans look in their own back yard for answers. Socialism DOES NOT WORK !!!
We thought we were getting a black John Kennedy, instead we got Richard Nixon.
I got a great idea. Europe loves Obama, how about you take him. Obama proved Europe right about one thing, America is fat, DUMB, and lazy. America was to lazy to research him. To dumb to understand his lack of experience and views. And fat goes with the other two.
Did we not fight a war to get away from European rule? And somehow Europe thinks we wanted to go back to that line of politics? Like I said, Obama proves America is fat, dumb, and lazy.
John,
You are delusional. Democrats held a majority in both houses for the last two years and have a Democratic president. If they didn't do what they said, then that is their own fault. Deflecting the blame where it squarely belongs on the Democrats just makes you look like the spineless liar and calling Republicans every name in the book just makes you look pathetic. Grow up and take some responsibilities for your party.
You make it sound so easy, let's not forget all the filibustering and Democrats ie Ben Nelson and the Senator from Louisiana who were looking for special handouts for a yes vote. If all the Dems had to worry about was the house more would have been accomplished, unfortunately the obstructionists filibustered virtually every piece of legislation requiring 60 votes to bring the bill to the floor. It is also unfortunate that politicians are so worried about getting re-elected they will vote no on something that is clearly something we needed. And to the people who criticized my tea party racist reference I do not mean 100% of tea partiers are racists probably only 90-95% so my apologies to the 5 or 10 percent who are not racist but can't think for themselves.
Senator Jim Demint "We are going to make health care reform Obama's waterloo" A U.S. Senator from one of the most racist states just happens to be the leader of the tea party among republicans currently in office.
Watching fox news will make you delusional and I see they have done a good job at it.
My point, John, was that you were overgeneralizing when you said that all Tea Partiers are racists, and that that sort of generalization was just as wrong as saying that all Muslims are terrorists.
"Don't you find it interesting that the tea party if it didn't evolve after Obama was elected it sure took off."
Haven't you ever heard: "Correlation does not imply causation"?
I mean, can you possibly think of anything else that might have sparked the Tea Party? The bailouts of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac? The government takeover of GM and Chrysler? The stimulus package whose effects have been mixed, at best? The massive Federal Debt? The deficit?
"don't you find it interesting that all these republicans want to repeal it"
I think it's interesting that the majority of Americans want to repeal it.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/health_care_law
"my apologies to the 5 or 10 percent who are not racist but can't think for themselves."
You know, there's a Stephen Crane poem that's a particular favorite of mine.
Haven't you ever heard: "Correlation does not imply causation"?
In this case the election of a president that wasn't 100% white was the cause.
If McCain had won I would bet my left testicle there wouldn't be a tea party at least
not the tea party Obama caused. Perhaps causation does have correlations to reality.
graindesel2008 said: "Look at a republican and you will see a fascist !"
You obviously don't have a clue as to what fascism is all about:
Fascism: A form of government where the state controls the means of production, but privately owned.
Socialism: Where the state both controls and "OWNS" the means of production.
In practice, there isn't much difference.
At least you didn't refer to Republicans as "Nazis" as many pin-heads are prone to do. FWIW, Nazi is a German abbreviation for "National SOCIALIST".
So, your accusation that Republicans are equivalent to Fascists is ludicrous and completely off the mark. Republicans support liberty and freedom, not slavery and economic ruin. The only problem in the US is that the National Republican Party has been far too left-winged and forgotten their original roots. Remember, it was the Republicans who were formed as an Abolitionist party (anti-slavery) and voted FOR the Civil Rights Act. It was the Democrats (many of whom had held positions in the KKK) which opposed it.
Take a wild guess as to which party "Martin Luther King" was registered? Hint: It was NOT the Democrat Party!
The bigotry of the left is alarming. From what I read, if I am for small / limited government (including reducing our military by a large portion and closing our bases around the world), and for a free-market health system (I actually prefer a non-profit private private solution) this somehow makes me a bigot and a racist?
If your ideas are good enough, you don't need to be both a bigot and a liar (about those whom you know nothing about). How about you show us how the wonderful socialist nations are actually doing? Because from what I read, the nations with the largest government footprint are all on the brink of collapse financially.
And have you heard, no matter how high your IQ, you can still be a complete idiot?
not enough to realize how stupid americans are.
Gary 420 - great post!
If the Europeans have any idea what we can do about the Tea Partiers, it would be great to know. President Obama inherited every mess Bush left including the bailout and the wars. Yet the Republicans act as if this was not a product of their making. I think in history, this will all be very clear, very obvious. But right now, average Americans are pretty embarrassed by what is going on with the GOP, Tea Party and the way the media is acting like this isn't ridiculous.
"In this case the election of a president that wasn't 100% white was the cause. If McCain had won I would bet my left testicle there wouldn't be a tea party at least not the tea party Obama caused."
The problem with your statement is that it's just speculation. You don't offer any proof that the Tea Party was jump started by color of the President's skin. In any case, there is no way to actually know what would have happened if McCain had been elected, so the point is moot.
Look, there are sound arguments that can be made against the Tea Party. Not to say that they are correct, but sound arguments nonetheless. It doesn't help things at all if the only rebuttal the Left can offer is pointing an accusatory finger at some poor schmuck and hysterically screaming "RAAAAAAAAACIST!" (did I put enough As in there?) every time he expresses doubts about the sustainability of the current level of government spending.
From the lead in: "They're very confused as to how [Americans] could vote for Obama and then two years later turn around and vote for a completely different set of policies,"
And so are many Americans. I think it is conservatives who must have thought Obama was the Messiah and would miraculously fix the Republican mess overnight. It took eight long years for conservatives to get a clue about Bush, but they started their attack on Obama immediately, and a very fierce, ugly one at that. There are many reasons why, starting with anger of sore losers.
But the more interesting aspect of this is how conservatives try to discredit Obama by falsely claiming he's a Socialist. And further to this article, they have also tried to demonize our European allies as a way to discredit Obama's popularity globally.
It's inane. Modern socialist countries in Europe are still democracies, and have a higher standard of living than the U.S. on many indexes. The real kicker is conservatives don't even know what socialism is. They equate it with Marxism and Communism, but these are not the same.
I always point out that there are far worse government systems out there like dictatorships, like fascism, which is a right-wing pro-military corporatist system (i.e. not too far off from the current GOP positions), or a theocracy (not too far off from many Tea Party positions). We are bordering on a plutocracy now.
Interesting how conservatives aren't outraged about being a plutocracy, by heaven forbid we become socialists. Like I said, they don't have a clue what these terms mean. I don't know which lie, conspiracy theory, or just plain ignorant garbage I am most tired of. Suffice it to say I am very tired of the right-wing dismissal of facts in general.
Jim Demint is from one of the most racist states in the country?
Is that the same state that's about to elect a woman of Indian descent as Governor and a 2 black congressmen, (1 dem, and 1 republican)
Please explain...
That would be Nicky Haley -Governor, Jim Clyborn -Black Democrat Congressman, Tim Scott- Black Republican Congress.
Pretty diverse if you ask me.
To all the freakin morons who are posting that the Republicans were the party of no. For the last 2 years the Democrats have controlled both Houses in Congress and the White House. The Democrats had a FILIBUSTER PROOF Senate!!!! The Democrats could pass and did pass any bill they so desired. They didn't allow input from the Republicans, they shut the Republicans out!!! President Obama hasn't done anything that is productive for the country. Democrats ranted about out of control spending by Bush when the deficit was 500 billion, now in 21 months of Obama that deficit has ballooned to over 3 trillion... It amazes me that when the majority of US citizens speaks out against the elitists of the Left leaning media and Democratic party they are demonized and called idiots and racists. Too often Republicans are called bigots, well here are some facts: Lincoln US President(Republican), Jefferson Davis CSA President(Democrat); Nathaniel Bedford Forrest founder of the KKK(Democrat), 13th, 14th, 15th ammendments to the Constitution passed by Repbulicans... Its time to stop calling people who disagree with Obamas programs racists, bigots, or anything else. The fact is Americans do not believe in socialists policies and there fore are using their voice by voting Democrats out.....
As shown in last 2 years...
"All change is not growth, as all movement is not forward. "
Ellen Glasgow
The literate world is scratching its collective head.
Why would anyone ever vote for the GOBP, Party of No ever again?
I seem to remember when most Europeans / Democratic activists in America had no trouble or moral qualms comparing Bush and his policies to Hitler.....
The fact is is that rhetoric nowadays is overblown and overdone
John,
You still haven't argued the point about Republicans holding up President's Obama's agenda. You cite Sen. Nelson, who is a Democrat, as being one of the individuals that held up the process of health care. Well..if the Democrats can't all be on the same page, why would you blame the Republicans. And as you also mention that they are more worried about being re-elected, well, if this health care reform was such a god send, then why would they be worried about not being re-elected? So me one Democrat that is parading out Pelosi on as a supporter. You can't! And why?? Because every Democrat is distancing themselves from Pelosi, Reid, and the legislation that they created and passed on their own.
Why don't you look in the mirror sometime and look who the real racist is because you are the kind of person that would preach about tolerance and yet in the same breath call someone a racist because they don't happen to subscribe to your way of thinking.
Just a quick question on what B.O. promised: does anyone have health care now since the ones with "preexisting" conditions were to have gotten them through their State's insurance program back in July? I don't & what I found is not remotely affordable to me.
Is this a portent of things to come in 2014?
AMEN! As bad as things are in the USA, Europe still is envious of our freedom. Obama tried to Europeonize our country bur, as you can see, we are Americans and like our nation as our Constitution entended it to be!
Are you kidding me? Physical responsibility, 3 trillion in additional debt. Taking over the banking industry, the student loan industry, the health care industry. Obama is a socialist.
Obama is the worst president this country has ever seen.
We are not Commies, Socialiast! We fell for Obama's lies and distortions in 2008. We do not wish to be told what to eat, drink, calloric intake, what and when lights can be turned on, what car to drive, and when we must have abortions. This commie rode in on a media painted moderate styled Trojan Horse. Blessed with black skin to be able to acuse any opposition of being the worst thing possible...a biggot. The media promoted him as a healer and uniter, and honest man, but he is only a bad politician doing the opposite of what he promosed.... corrupt, and without morals, and is bankrupting America, destroying our currency, setting back race relations decades, opening our boarders to all, and absolutly destroying our document of freedom and liberty, the US Constituiton.
I am sick and tired of the socialist Europe bashing that is going on in this country. While it is true that some European countries have high deficits and economic problems , that is most certainly not true for all European countries. Let's not forget that the Norway, Sweden, Denmark, and Germany are all socialist countries according to American standards and their economies are doing very well, in spite of the evils of socialism they have to operate in.
Let's take a look a Germany for instance. Germany has about 80 Mil people and is the size of half of California. Germany has no oil, not much of any other raw materials to speak of, yet Germany is the 4th largest export nation in the world. This, even though German workers have national health care and guaranteed pensions. They also have some of the most generous benefits packages in the world. In spite of all this, or maybe because of all this, Germany's businesses are extremely competitive, the economy has completely recovered from the US induced recession and employment is back to pre-recession levels.
So, in closing, next time look at all the facts, rather than commonly repeated opinions before mindlessly reiterating tired and incorrect phrases.
If you like Germany, move there. What's stopping you?
Well then we agree that the United States of America DOES NOT WORK (right now)! Because if you pay your income taxes your a Socialist too, Ido. Seeing as how they pay for Socialist programs (Police & Fire & Military protection, SS/Medicare, etc)
Actually your outright wrong. Please don't push this point anymore. It is categorically FALSE. 60 is filibuster proof majority. So even with all the Dem's in tow they'd still need an Indie or 2 or a Rep to cross the aisle.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27372033/
That's false. The 2009 budget was 86% Bush Jr's fault (2 wars, 8 years of his policies & the Bailout he signed as he was running from office hoping he wouldn't take any blame for the meltdown his lack of oversight in the finance & housing market debacles.) & 14% Obama's Fault
2009 Fiscal year budget: $1.4 Trillion (87%Bush $1.2Trillion & 14% Obama $.2Trillion)
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/downchart_gs.php?year=2000_2010&view=1&expand=&units=b&fy=fy11&chart=G0-total&bar=0&stack=1&size=l&title=&state=US&color=c&local=s
Well those are impressive for their track record. But I'm sure the majority of Citizen's can agree that the Democrats & Republicans don't look like the Old Guard at all.
Then if the Republicans get control the elderly are surely going to hand over their SS & medicare benefits seeing as how those are Socialist programs. & the veteran's, sorry hero's. The 'majority of America' thinks socialism (as they misinterpret it) is wrong. So no VA hospital & school benefits because we don't pay for a military anymore. Just local organize militias (roving bands of ignorants is what most likely would happen.) Or even scarier Private Sector Military's, now that's just putting the Profits of War right out in the open rather then letting a administration hide it behind the walls of 'Democracy' & 'Patiroitsm'.
Once again, if you pay your income taxes. You are a Socialist. Deal with it.
False, please don't use hyperbole. The 1st President to be impeached will ALWAYS be the worst President in history. http://www.siena.edu/uploadedfiles/home/parents_and_community/community_page/sri/independent_research/Presidents%202010%20Rank%20by%20Category.pdf
Do you pay your income taxes? Then your a Socialist. See above.
We had a Rally for that. I was there. It was impressive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXmbzLI3pnk
How sad, how unfortunate that people feel compelled to invest so much hope and faith in a mere mortal!!! Shame on Europeans and shame on Americans!! Yes, you have obviously become disillusioned, but what did you expect? He is a young inexperienced politician and many of you had no clue as to who he really is, now you are beginning to realize and it hurts. Oh well......
Kind of like Palin, or her clone gone wrong O'Donnell, I wonder what will happen to our country should either of them get into what ever office they are aiming for, Palin in 2012? God help us all, doesnt the mayan calender end in 2012 talk about scary....
The Tea Party is one freaky and scary party, all I can say is God help our constitution if they come into power, you want socialism well if they take control be prepared for more of the Bush era policies with some bible thumping wackos forcing religious dogma on the whole country while they shred the constitution in a back room.
and so you are saying experience GWB showed in the previous 8 years was worth it?
Pirate , i could not agree more. If the tea baggers were to come into power, the Bush years will look like the good old days. An agenda of violence against anyone who disagrees with thier policies, lawlessness and anarchy. Scary stuff. Are voters really twisted enough to buy into this?
Sarah Palin isn't going to run for President in 2012. Why should she? She's MUCH more effective as a political pundit. Just look at how she irritates ya'll. Imagine if she made a full-time effort at it. LMAO.
Carolyn - Do you really believe that? Absolutely your fabrication. Why would you say such things?
Irrational poster what Carolyn said is spot on a very rational post. Do you have anything rational to say?
Are you a racist? Does it just get your goat that a non 100% white Man isn't President. Let's roll out the fake anger in 5-4-3-2-1
Pandy - I dont get your logic. I paid close attention in the 2008 campaign, and Obama is what I expected. Rather, change that - he's falling short of what I expected, but granted, I didnt see the republicans playing Obstructionists the way they did...so im disappointed he didnt accomplish more.
Inexperienced? He's gotten more done in 18 months than any previous president in the last 60 years.
And we know he's gotten a lot done by all the screaming and yelling by the right wing nuts...otherwise, wouldnt ya'll be saying "he's done nothing!"...
find a consistent talking point and stick with it buddy, you're looking like a fool.
Irrational Poster - what did Carolyn say that isnt true? Did you not hear Sharron Angle's threat of a "second amendment remedy" if things dont go the Tea Party's way? Was she just joking around? Do you know what the libertarian platform is? Anarchy essentially. And the Tea Party is just one nudge away from their platform.
Seriously, educate yourself on what they stand for. It's not that hard. YOu dont have to dig that deep. And currently the tea baggers are politicing in the middle of the road - not on the far right like they were in the primaries. Dig deeper - see what they say about ending public education, privatizing social security - cause wall street has such a good record huh? how'd you like your life savings flushed away every 8 years? vote tea baggers! they want to end medicare and they essentially want a "strict constitionalist view" which means the entire gains made in the 20th century for black people and women - washed away.
All these idiots saying "people didnt know who or what Obama was, now they know and they dont like it"
Well, americans must be incredibly stupid - they are doing the same thing with the tea party movement, all over again. hello mcfly...try following along.
PANDY - come on! Every President is inexperienced - and he has never been expected to do it alone. What is congress for? What is the Cabinet for? WHEN a whole Party JUST SAYS NO explain how anything will get done?
John - I have nothing to say about race. I don't have any feelings about our President's race. Carolyn's assertion of violence is pure fabrication - and for what purpose?
And John, what motivated you to jump in and throw out stuff about race? You guys get yourselves all upset by fabricating what those that disagree with you are thinking. You demonize those that have political views other than yours.
The Tea Party, 'is as if a moderately talented performers have walked on stage at improv night'
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3096434/#39880604
Anyone who denies the fact that there is a vocal element that cannot accept a non-white, progressive President has their head in the sand. The neocons are frothing at the mouth because they lost the Presidential election and can't have their way...hence the obstructionist Party of NO.
Socialist? Sure, I can be honest and proudly staet that I beleive in social reform, look at what social programs are all about without having visions of Stalin dancing in the streets. Why the uneducated masses of the right equate social reform with Stalinism is proof of their narrow mindedness. Even more so when you hear it from those who profess to follow The Way of Jesus Christ....like it or not...you ARE your Brothers/Sisters keeper...deny it and answer for it when you face your Maker.
As for President Obama being what I expected...he's MORE. He has shown that despite the stonewalling of the opposition, he has been more than willing to sit down with them and provide the opportunity for discussion and compromise, alas to no avail. He has done his utmost to fulfill all he said he would do during his campaign, despite the arrogant neocon 'Just say No' crowd.
If it were up to the Teabaggers and the other neocons, we would live in a true dog eat dog world where it's everyone for themselves and screw the unfortunate ones that happen to fall on hard times, fall seriously ill and find themselves at the mercy of the so called "health care industry", loose their jobs and can't find work through no fault of their own. Hey, lets just reopen the poor houses and debters prisons.
Hypocrites all ... better not file for Social Security or unemployment bennies when YOU get laid off or get injured enough that you can no longer work.
I agree with those above who have said "God help us all"if the Teabaggers actually obtain any sort of power.
Mr Breeze - There is another, more rational explanation to what you describe as an uncaring segment of our populous. There are always more needs than we can adequately address. The healthier our economy is, the more revenue that is available for those in need. The worse tax of all for the poor is inflation which is the inevitable result of deficit spending. Those that want less government and reduced deficits ARE caring about the poor as they try to hold down inflation.
They can have him and while they're at it take Pelosi and Reid. They'll fit France well.
Rational Poster - I understand your position and appreciate what you say. However, I think we have seen that the 'trickle down' economic policies don't really trickle down. Some of these folks are proposing ending all social programs that truely help thiose who have legitimate needs and cannot fend for themselves. I would agree that there is entirely too much waste in government, let's address that and not let the care for those who have true, legitimate need be subject to relief by chance. You sound like an individual that would sit down at a table and discuss policy in a true spirit of negotiation and compromise. Would that your mindset be more prevelant in the houses of government today.
I suppose my main point is that I worry that whenever any social program is brought up, folks now seem to immediately scream "Socialist!!! They're all a bunch of Reds!!! UnAmerican!!!!!" Very disturbing to say the least.
(excuse typos, writing this from a remote location mid pacific, my internet is..cro magnon at best)
Mr Breeze? Ha! More like Mr. Airhead.
What a fool.
Mr Breeze - No doubt we need to be seeking the right balance and the middle does not make the news or get you on talk shows. Too bad!
Thanks for the truely intellectual response Carl...I needed a laugh ROFLMAO!
Mr Breeze - the vast majority of conservative people do not want to end programs the help the very needy. In fact, most conservatives give more than their fair share to private organizations who do just this.
What many of us disagree with is a government fighting wars for no purpose and certainly not to protect us, establish military bases all over the world at the cost of billions and billions when these countries can take care of themselves, spending programs that have so much waste it cannot even be measured (and the military is a prime example of this foolishness). Medical programs rife with fraud and abuse for decades in spite of politicians promises, daily reports of fraud, overpayments, and the recent story telling us we've funded the Taliban to the tune of $1 BILLION!
Government at every level is out of control. A poor city in CA with a mayor earning $700K, six-figure retirement plans for government workers with a retirement age of 55, etc...
This is the worst kind of greed - government mandated, with an army of police to enforce their theft.
For the life of me I will never understand why some are so enamoured with Europe and what Europeans think.
Because firstly, European countries and governments have been around and survived and evolved for many, many centuries, while our country is the very young, great experiment of some genius men who defied the King of England... Just because we don't see eye to eye about everything, doesn't mean we can't learn from eachother.... and secondly, Economies are not contained and localized as they used to be... everything is globally connected and intertwined... what happens across the pond can have significant impact here, and vice versa...
Side note: To anyone that feels they are disillusioned with the "all talk, no action" policies of BOTH parties,
or feel you are a member of one party more by default, because you are repulsed by the other party...
I encourage you to take 5 minutes to look at the basic ideas of the Libertarian Party here...
http://www.lp.org/platform
This is more like what the founding fathers had in mind....
V,
The Libertarian Party is the republican Party on steriods!
Because they live longer and are generally more happy. But this is something that a clueless American exceptionallist like yourself will not allow yourself to find out and maybe reflect on. It's all about your side vs. the enemy whoever that may be.
I agree with your post. Libertarian is a good alternative. But, I would hate to see ANY of these parties, Libertarian included, totally run the government. The ideals of all three, and probably the Green Party also, would make a much stronger country. The solution to the mess we are in is not Republican or Democratic rule. It is a meshing of ideas and cooperation to create a stronger country. That is what works in everyday life, and that is what will work in government.
"The Libertarian Party is the republican Party on steriods!"
You say that like it were a bad thing...
Because Europe existed before us and they will exist after us as well. They also have the experience of being front-row, center court to two world wars which has forced them to draw the conclusion - it ain't worth it. I think America would have a different take on dominating other countries if the battles were fought in our back yards and our property was blown to bits rather than theirs. America is the insolent child that thinks it knows better after barely two centuries in existence versus the parent who has been in existence for five times that. Have the Europeans made mistakes? You betcha. But the the difference between us and them is that they seem to learn a bit more from those mistakes than America will. My guess is America won't learn a thing from this experience and carry on as had been before this happened. All I can say is, thank GOD I am married to a Swede and we have the option of living in Sweden when (not if) this country becomes a plutocratic, theocratic, or both, state. I certainly feel badly for those who don't have that option. The Tea Party is just one of those demagogues that rear their ugly heads when times are bad and, under normal economic circumstances, would be completely ignored. Personally, I find them a little scary.
V, both my parents are Ron Paul-loving, dyed-in-the-wool libertarians and all I have to say about that is, it is a nice idea but it ain't ever gonna happen. First, the corporations won't let it. True free-market principles mean they will actually have to compete and they don't want to do that. Besides that, with a weak government, there's nobody strong enough to make them play by the rules. Second, I have noticed that a lot of people who claim to be libertarians aren't aware of what it means to be a true libertarian. They like the ideas concerning business, taxes, and guns but can't stomach the idea of choice when it comes to marriage, abortion, and religion.
It seems to have taken the Europens some time to learn...WW1, then WWII, then Yugoslavia when they had to have Americans come in to stop the fighting. As for your statement that Europe will be around long after we are gone...Do you have a crystal ball!!!
Funny, I don't see the Europeans bailing our a$$ out of a couple of world wars. I don't see our economy (YET) sinking into the gutter like some of theirs. I don't see the Muslim riots over here (YET) because they have such a stronghold they think they can. I don't see our American workers rioting (YET) because they have to work a little longer in order to save the very economic fabric of our country.
The Europeans are envious of our ingenuity, work ethic and ability to get the job done. They want us to sink down to their level. With Obamanomics, we're headed that way at breakneck speed.
No crystal ball but I'll put my money on the Europeans before the Americans any day.
How the heck many americans died in two wars in the 20th century because the europeans couldn't get out of each other's way. Don't tell me the europeans know what they are doing. America exists today becuase our ancestors wanted to get the flock out of that place. I don't give a damn what the europeans think.
Heck if you love'm so much why don't you and Mr. Obama move over there together. We'll be all to happy to get a moving van to pack the two of you up.
Stuck here for three more years. My husband was sent here by his Swedish company to clean up the mess left by the previous manager at their Minneapolis branch. Never send in Americans to clean up messes left by other Americans. Believe me, once he is done, we'll be on the next flight back to Sweden. America would be a great place to live except there are too many people who, after we tell them we live in Sweden, "Oh! I've been to Geneva!"... *sigh
NotaSoc
I hate to jump into this cesspool with you but you obviously learned all your history from Glen Beck and therefore you don't know what you are talking about.
#1. We didn't win WWI. The French and the British had largely ground the Germans to a halt and the war was turning in their favor when we joined the fight in 1917. The only large battle we participated in was the Argonne Offensive in late 1918 where we refused the advice of the French and Germans who had been fighting this new type of war for nearly four years. An attitude which cost us tens of thousands of American lives to no good purpose.
#2. We didn't win WWII. Oh we helped, but it was the Russians who won the war in Europe and that's a historical fact. Churchill and Rooseveldt made the strategic decision to let the Soviets die to defeat Germany rather than the Allies and they slowed their advance to allow the Russians to shoulder the burden. A fact Stalin complained about continually.
#3. The current European financial "crisis" is in large part caused by the collapse of our economy in the sub-prime lending debacle. We drug them down with us but they are recovering more quickly because they aren't having to drag the dead weight of the GOP behind them.
#4. You want to see riots? Just wait until the GOP tries to cut Social Security or Medicare. You'll see riots that will make France's recent disturbances look like Bastille Day celebrations.
#5. Muslim riots in Europe? I guess I didn't get the memo. If such a thing occurred it's because the Muslims in Europe enjoy real religious freedom and feel comfortable expressing their concerns publicly. Unlike here, where we oppose them building a mosque or traveling by air threaten to burn their religious texts.
Maybe you should watch something other than Fox News for awhile. Just to get a different perspective and let your brain breathe a little. Listen to some music on the Radio instead of Rush.
I think your brain is dying from lack of use.
Revisionist history straight from the annals of white liberal guilt.
To Rachel-1030066
How about no parties? If you want to do what the forefathers envisioned you would have to do away with parties altogether. Alexander Hamilton and George Washington both warned against the creation of political parties in the strongest possible terms. If they could come back to life and look at the current situation they'd say, "See, we tried to warn you".
Partisan politics will be the ruin of this country and the internet only makes the problems worse by allowing the abusive and vicious rhetoric of people with seventh grade educations to go unchallenged. Goodbye America................
Rachel, for all your pro-europe rambling you have an appalling lack of historical knowledge about the Europe you profess to love so much.
First off, Europe is a continent not a country and I think Noth America has been around just as long.
Second, America in its current form has been around longer than most countries in Europe. Italy and Germany did not even exist until late 1800s 1861 and 1871 to be exact. Your beloved Sweden didn't exist until 1905. Which by the way has only 9 million people. In fact, your statement that countries have been around for more than 5 times as long as America is completely off base. No country in Europe is older than 1,000 years and none have been a democracy longer than America.
Europe didn't give us democracy we gave it to Europe.
Why should we care what Europeans think?
...maybe because they're our friends, trading partners, cultural siblings, and military allies?
Seriously, our country is in pretty shabby state. Care to make it worse by alienating our ties oversea?
Could you be anymore MISINFORMED?
Did you even go to the link I provided, and do 5 mins worth of reading?
Libertarians are absolutely NOT Republicans on Steroids...
Although I have heard it said, that a Libertarian is a Republican who smokes pot....
(That is a joke by the way).
I'm not going to push the Libertarian agenda on you or anyone,
But I think people should LOOK INTO IT on their own...
Read what their platform is, and decide if you agree or not...
Just presenting another option to the Dem - Repub quaqmire...
here's the link again...
http://www.lp.org/platform
V:
Problem with your logic. Everyone in this country left those countries because they did not believe or needed a different place to start over. European countries do have some good policies, but they are theirs and maynot reflect what the people who left those countries believe. Our path is a different path, has been since the very start of this country. When you talk about the current political path of European countries you are actually looking at a shorter time frame then the U.S. So please do not expect all of us to believe that they are much older and wiser. They still haven't figured out what is best for their country. Stay out of ours.
Oh, that too whawg.
Handgunner, I'm afraid skip's assertions are not liberal revisionist history. Soviet military casualties are estimated to be anywhere between 8.8-10.7 million out of a military force of about 35 million. The US lost less than half a million in both the Pacific and European theaters with an military force of about 17 million. The Soviet Union accounted for 65% of all military deaths in World War 2, the US accounts for only 2%. Same situation in the first World War. The US lost just over 100,000 military personnel, the British imperial forces lost over 1.1 million, France lost about 1.4 million, and the Russians lost about 1.8 million. These are military deaths, not civilians. The wikipedia page on the matter does a fairly good job of explaining this and has an extensive bibliography. I think it is fair to say that the US was not the deciding force and did not shoulder the brunt of the two world wars by ANY means.
Any trouble the muslims get in Europe is because they are too socially conservative. Europeans don't like subversion of women, suppression of civil liberties, and religion getting too much power in general. The ones that don't make a ruckus in those areas enjoy very peaceful lives. When I lived in the Netherlands, there were six muslim families living in the same flat complex as I did, all very nice people.
This isn't revisionism, this is reality. It can't be helped if reality doesn't fit into the liberal or conservative ideology, both of which I am not interested in. Skip's right, get off Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh, Olbermann, etc and think for yourselves.
I have no idea why any American would look at Europe as anything more than a tourist destination.
The argument that the European nations have been around far longer than our 200-something years is completely invalid.
The United States of America has operated under one government since it was founded. While there are a number of centuries old governments in Europe there are many that are far younger than our own. The French and German governments today for example are not the same governments that ruled those countries 500 years ago.
The names on the map may be older than the United States, but when you look at the ages of the governmental systems throughout a lot of Europe you will find that America's government is far older.
The greatness of Europe has long since passed, but we can learn a great deal from the Europe of today.
The Europe of yesterday helped form the America of today, and if we're not careful the Europe of today could be the America of tomorrow. That is something that we simply can't let happen.
Never say never... (or "ain't ever")... there are 200 elected Libertarians in the US right now.
That may indeed be an obstacle to getting campaign funding.... but if enacted..... As long as the corps can generate a profit, they will chase the bone.
Weak is the wrong word.... it is just less involved in the affairs of business... TRUE "free trade".... Once you remove government subsidies to business, labor, or any other special interests... you allow the market to regulate itself... which by nature of competition, it would actually do...
"The only proper role of government in the economic realm is to protect property rights, adjudicate disputes, and provide a legal framework in which voluntary trade is protected. All efforts by government to redistribute wealth, or to control or manage trade, are improper in a free society."
http://www.lp.org/platform
Those people need to educate themselves then.... "The Libertarian party vision is for a world in which all individuals can freely exercise the natural right of sole dominion over their own lives, liberty and property"...
"Minimum Government, Maximum Freedom"...
Lynn-693227
I wasn't implying we should do the bidding of Europe, or follow any of their pursuits or whatever....
I was replying to a statement someone made about "why should we care what anyone from Europe has to say"?... I just think that's ignorant... there is nothing to be lost by conversing with your neighbor... You either gain... or you disregard... but you don't lose.
Dear handjob,
How nice to hear from you this afternoon.
Revisionist History? No, that's being taught in Texas these days.
This is straight out of the mainstream histories of the Argonne Offensive, World War II and today's headlines.
If you read a book or a magazine other Playboy (just to continue the "Handjob" metaphor) or watched a news program other than FOX you would know that what I am saying is truth.
It's sad how many have forgotten their history. Which explains why we are reliving it now.
Handjob, run down the public library and check out a copy of THE RISE AND FALL OF THE THIRD REICH by William Shirer (sp?)
Even YOU might be able to notice the similarities to Berlin in the 30's and the Teanut movement.
Oh, and the fact that Europe has more than 2500 years of recorded history and experience might make them just a little more "seasoned" and knowledgable about a few things than us with our puny 200 years and counting. That's one reason why we should listen to them. The other reason is, and you aren't going to like this, this is ONE WORLD. One planet. And we all have to travel TOGETHER on this rock. It might be nice to get along with the neighbors now and then.
Go USA,
Agreed, but please be a good American, then, and spell your words like American students are taught to. "Enamored," not "enamoured." Unless, of course, you were just being humourous.
AndresTM: I was taught to spell it the way I did. I did a spellcheck as well. I can assure that I am a good American.
GoUSA - Have you ever traveled in Europe? Have you ever read anything at all about European history, particularly how it was influential in shaping our own? Do you think that you could be the American that you regard yourself as being without Europe? Maybe you should get at least a tiny bit of education before you make the comments you are making that so blatantly betray your ignorance.
Yes is the answer to each of your questions. I can be an American because of a little thing we like to call the American Revolution. Not to discount where some people came from, but that was quite a while back as I recall. As for education, I have a masters degree, and I can assure you that I am not ignorant; I simply don't understand why people in this country - the greatest the world has ever seen - care about a bunch of people who have had hundreds of years longer to get it right and haven't done so.
Oh Idiocracy... of course I know that Europe is a continent and not a country. I'm merely grouping them together rather than list every individual country. Ease of effort. I should know a lot about Europe, I lived in three different countries in Europe for a total of 8 years and not on a military base. How long did you live there?
The statement that we gave the Europeans democracy is wishful thinking. American democracy was born of the Enlightenment, a movement that started in the cities of Europe in the early 17th century when there were only a handful of dirt-villages inhabited by colonists in what would nearly 200 years later become the United States. I'm aware of when the current governments of various European nations came into existence but they did not form in a vacuum. There is a chain of succession going back many centuries, each drawing on examples and aspects from some the previous ones. To say that It is only one or two hundred years is a half-truth, the traditions go back much longer than that. My beloved Sweden has been on the political map in some shape or form since 1397. It is also untrue that there are no European countries with a government as old as the United States. The current government of of the United Kingdom is older - formed in 1707 with the Acts of Union. The only significant change was the eventual reduction of the power of the monarchy. Whose knowledge in European history lacks???
The world is no longer all about the US and it is no longer the go-to. We do need to care what other nations think of us if we want to do business with them. They can get their stuff from lots of other places nowadays.
Spain - 1978
UK - 1707
France - 1958
Italy - 1946
Great that Europe had the Enlightenment, too bad they did nothing and it took a new nation to implement it. We have been at this far longer than Europe who still had Kings and Queens for into the 20th century and some who still hold onto all of that.
USA didn't develop in a vacuum either, but I guess since we didn't go through serfdom we don't know what were doing. USA was built and is still built be other countries rejects, but yet we need to defer before our superior Europe Masters who know oh so more than us morons.
Typical self-loathing elitism.
Why do you say they did nothing with it? Do you even know what a constitutional monarchy is? The monarchs of Europe have zero power nowadays, they merely serve as a living symbol of the country. The real power resides in the parliaments.
They did a lot with the Enlightenment. Pitched religious dogma for starters, something the US has a long ways to go on. The slave trade AND slavery was abolished in most European countries a good 60 years before the US decided to and it took a war to settle the issue. If you think European nations did not implement Enlightenment ideas, you are sorely mistaken.
No, the USA did not form in a vacuum, that is the whole point - they looked to Europe for an example. Not Asia, not Africa, not Australia - EUROPE. You might think the USA can do no wrong but I noticed you never answered my question - how long did you live in a European country? If you aren't willing to answer it, I'll guess. You haven't. Which makes you hardly worth listening to as an authority on life in Europe. Go live in a European country for a few years and then come back and preach your "USA is the best" sermons to us. You will see what the US really stands for and is really about and you won't think it is so great anymore.
We didn't go through serfdom??? Why don't you tell that to the Native Americans forced to live in squalor on reservations or to African American share-croppers in the south. Typical conservative WASP-is-the-only-history-worth-paying-any-attention-to rhetoric.
If they like him so much they can have him. We will trade him for some cash and a politician to be named later.
"We will trade him for some cash and a politician to be named later"
Can we trade the politician for more cash, or, better yet, gold? We've got more than enough politicians as it is...
Just make sure that the cash component is in precious metals, not Euros or European Bonds. IMO, we haven't seen the last of the "Around the bowl / down the hole" situation for the European Monetary system. The morons that drove the train into their current train wreck are still in the engineer's seat and the passengers are on strike holding picket signs because they don't want their ticket price to change. The upcoming crash will be something to see; if you've never seen a "Hell of a Wreck" before, here is your chance. Take notes and pictures, there will be a quiz later.
Of course, if our government continues spending like a ship full of drunk sailors in a whorehouse, we will be right behind them. As Roy Scheider said in Blue Thunder, "Hold your nose, we're in deep #%$&" !
Can we keep him and trade all the whiney people who expect miracles without hard work!
K N Pepper
Only if we can also trade all of the liberal whiners that want everything to be given to them for no work. Just sit there and take what is given to you and enjoy. Its almost like being French or Greek.
mln815----You're an idiot. Enough said.....
I am so sick and tired of the lame argument that liberals don't work which is so unfounded. We do. We work very hard. I've worked for 38 of my 54 years and i will probably continue to work until I am 65. I have never taken any of the government aid that you people so arrogantly loathe, although if I were ever to lose my job, I would be grateful that unemployment exists as a safety net for us all, as I am sure any of you would. Contratry to your incorrect argument that Democrats enable individuals to depend on welfare, Democrats, put into effect, programs and policies that help to keep people off of welfare. Democrats give citizens what they need to be self sufficient.
Carolyn - most of what you say is accurate, but when it comes to keeping people on welfare/keeping people off of welfare...I disagree. Im a bleeding heart liberal, but I cant stand the way welfare and medicare work. Granted, I think BOTH parties participate in keeping the status quo going - what would republicans complain about if we fixed the system so that it got people working, rather than living indefinately on assistance?
As for democrats, they'd anger an entire base of liberals if they demanded that people "needing assistance" worked in exchange for that. I get it, there arent jobs out there - but instead of handing over a check with no expectations, couldnt we FIND public service work for them to do...even if it was as stupid as cleaning parks, or volunteering at homeless shelters?
I suspect that a good majority of people living comfortable on the rolls, wouldnt be too happy with working for exchange for that paltry assistance. Getting it for free, is one thing...putting in work for that little chunk of nothing, quite different.
The system is set up so that women are encouraged to have more babies to get a bigger assistance check. Think thats not true? I have friends who work at DHS and you wouldnt believe the horror stories...how women call in and say "im having another baby, where's my extra money" and when they say "what part of stop having babies dont you understand, you arent taking care of the ones you already have" they get irate "yes I am, I am getting my checks". Yes, having kids is their work. That needs to change. Im not saying tons and tons of women are doing this, but far too many.
For medicare - I just talked with a coworker, who's got a deadbeat for her baby's daddy (he has 5 kids by 5 different women). he got drunk one night and jumped off a balcony, injuring his leg/back pretty bad. Since then, he's not "capable of working" ever again because he's in "severe pain"...except, he isnt...he just gets 160 pills for 3 weeks, and sells the pills at $2-3 a pop on the street. That's his job now.
Im sorry, but abuses abound...and investing some money in the system to stop these abuses...would actually SAVE money. Democrats arent interested in doing that - anymore than republicans are.
We need to stop pretending the system is working fine - simply because a handful of people who really do need it, get their assistance. Heck, actually a lot of people who need temporary assistance dont qualify because they are actually out there trying to improve their situation...whereas, most sitting on the payrolls, really arent.
Heck, I could even include unemployment benefits into this conversation of a failed system - set up designed to keep people from taking jobs. Seriously, think about it...you got let go, you now get X amount of money a week for doing nothing but "looking for a job" and we have to pass up job after job because it doesnt pay as much as unemployment? Here's a better idea - how about we get people to take jobs that pay less and supplement whats missing for up to 2 years? Hopefully that person will get promoted and make more, or find another job that pays more...and we'll save money.
As it is, people are just maxing out the extensions. I know people doing this. Republicans too. I know people who cant stand not to work, who've taken jobs that didnt work out so well...and now they've are hesitant to take that risk again and lose their benefits. The system needs to be set up to encourage a better outcome...and our systems just arent set up to do that.
Finally a Liberal gets it, way to go Jessica. I am not a Tea Bagger or a Republican but a Conservative but Jessica is right. Have you ever thought of running for office, with more people that think like this I can see things getting done. I have never liked when all 3, President, House and Senate are controlled by 1 party nothing gets done that is good for all not just some. If we just cut out the fat and waste we would be better off all around
Jessica-1170252
Thank You for your candid and honest statements. I am a conservative, not a Tea Partier but more like a Jack Kemp "Bleeding Heart Conservative." I know people need a hand up, but a hand out is more destructive to them than doing nothing at all as it makes them dependant upon the stipend.
In 1934, Henry Morganthau, Jr. (FDR’s secretary of the Treasury and the man that actually created Social Security) went before Congress and asked for assistance for people that were suffering from the Dust Bowl and the Great depression. When he did, he cautioned the Congress not to make the payments too generous as that would “Reduce their willingness to improve their situation and create a condition not unlike Economic Slavery.” Unfortunately, we didn’t heed his words. We have, for the past 50 years or so, conditioned people to live off of social services, public assistance, artificially reduced cost, and handouts.
I have sent a friend request. We may not always agree on things, but I am sure that we could get some good conversations and discussions going. After all, isn't that what Newsvine is supposed to be about?
And your comment exemplifies what baffles Europeans and others: That Americans have embraced the lack of education as a plus, that they are instant gratification uneducated fools, who, when they finally elect someone who is smart enough to deal with leaders around the world, who is smart enough to have saved the world economy for collapse, who has brought out status in the world back again, here we go showing our stupidity to elect a bunch of obstructionists with no viable plan to make this country competitive in a global economy.
You all deserve what you get. Have fun trying to lift on small wages, no health care, no chance of a good education, no college, no new green industry jobs all due to your brainwashing by the morons who preach their racist, unhinged views on one cable station and a couple of totally certifiable radio talk show hosts.
The United States of America, run by the largest corporations, making the rich richer, and the poor to languish in misery until they die, while China, Japan, Brazil and India leads the world.
Be careful...you hatred is showing....
I wish people would get off this 'hatred' thing. I don't know President Obama well enough to hate him, but I sure have very strong disagreements with most of his policies.
Perhaps a relocation is in the Obama family future. Many would apparently be pleased and he has to have something to do after his term expires...
Who cares what the enlightened people who brought us slavery and death camps think?
Are you referring to conservatives? When you say "slaver" and "death camps", all I can envision are the growing masses of poor in the US and Guantanamo Bay prison.
... Sigh... Western society is doomed, isn't it? Fragmentation between allies is just the begining.
Europeans didn't get it when we sailed away in the 1600s and they still don't get it. On an individual level, we don't want to be anybody's servant, including our own government. Make that especially our own government.
Maybe a hundred years ago... We aren't THAT country anymore... sadly. The Government is now America, the people aren't. As it once was just the opposite.
Correction the Corporations and the Wealthy are now America.
Spybee, your comment is terrible, depressing, and sadly true. What is it, you think? The Internet? This new obssesion with a purely social life, where partying and getting laid are all that really matter? The fact that knowing about politics isn't fashionable anymore? Where is the counterculture? Where is the turning back to the sciences and arts? Where are the meaningful activists and new social and philosophical movments? Where is the new generation rebelling against the mistakes of the present? Where are the American people!?
I think once we answer these questions, we can really begin getting our country back on track.
AMAZING, AMAZING, AMAZING, unfortunately none of you can say that deep down inside the dislike for Obama is not rooted in race. Media fleecing the country...puh-lease. What is the media doing now with this election, touting a GOP lead that may be fictitious. Look deep if you can at your own politcs and what you want for this country. How seasoned was our last president, what makes for a good president...it is always easier for people on the outside to see what is staring you right in your face quicker and faster. Europeans have aright to express their opinions as well as Americans and be baffled by our actions because in the end...as fate decides the outcome, the truth will always come to light. Hate Obama if you like, but dont condemn him without true justification.
What is the media doing now with this election, touting a GOP lead that may be fictitious. No, the media is merely reporting the results of polling which it has done since polling began. The argument is that the media is biased toward progressives. This is without dispute. No fair minded person could view MSNBC's lineup and their programming and say it doesn't support progressive views. Folks have looked deeply into their own politics, and found that they don't approve of the government spending 25% of the GNP. They don't like the government takeover of health care, education, finance and through the EPA, Energy. Somehow, they don't believe that government bureaucrats in Washington DC can do a better job than the private sector, or local government. And, finally, it has nothing to do with RACE. Folks overwhelmingly voted out Jimmy Carter for the same reasons.. was he black???
People hated Clinton, Bush, and a number of other politicians what makes Obama any better. As far as people on the outside "Europe" they have no idea what's going on over here...
Why is it, the first thing a racist thinks of is someone else MUST be a racist. According to your logic, a person can NOT dis-like another, if that other person is of a different race. Wow, what a thought process!
Of course the only thing you would focus on is the race aspect of my comment and take it to that level, but however the truth remains to be seen. We are very understanding and forgiving of so much. What could you expect to see in two years. You, as I, are welcome to your opinion but I have seen the discord that is brought about by small minded thinking. I am not a racist but I believe that much of what is said against Obama is "rooted" in racism.
Race has nothing to do with it. The government takeover of healthcare and his policies have everything to do with it. Imagine if all that hard work and money was put toward the economy. The higest priority should have been getting folks back to work. I disagree with his priorities and policies. Deep down I think we all wanted Obama to be successful. His success would have helped America be better. Instead, we will be lucky to survive his failure.
No, the media is merely reporting the results of polling which it has done since polling began.
I hear and appreciate your view, but who exactly are they polling?? I can never trust what I read and the media in itself lacks true credibilty. I can only go by what happens November 2 which is what remains to be seen.
No he wasn't and lost the election because Americans liked what Regan promoted and if you think about it that could be the same reason Obama was voted in. People were ready for some kind of change. I just dont think Obama is being given a fair chance. Some of the same issues that were prevalent in the Carter Administration that were revamped by the Regan Administration are coming to bite up now. No one who lives in America has not been affected in someway by the "out of touch" beaurecrats in Washington, but just be honest and lay the blame where it should lie. Greed has consumed this country and the rich are getting richer and the middle class is moving on a fast downward spiral. I dont disagree with your political view at all, dont get me wrong, I just think that deep down inside many people are not giving Obama a fair shake and we as a people need to look deepr than the color of his skin. If you are not that person and can truly say that your opinion is not rooted in race, I say kudos to you. You ARE being true to your political bweliefs and that is a rare coin these days. JMO
Talk about racist?? We all KNOW many people voted for obama only because his HALF black.
"I can only go by what happens November 2 which is what remains to be seen."
Can we really believe that? Looked like Gore beat Bush, but somehow we got stuck with him for 8 years. I've also read articles about how election fraud is being expected at record levels this election season.
Oh I can say it has nothing to do with race. I voted for him in the primary, I liked what I saw initially, before the general election, then I started listening more closely to what he was saying, and watching more closely what he was doing. I wish he had done a good job, I wish he had thought about what is best for the country not what would get him reelected a second term, not what would pump up HIS base... I would have loved to have our first African American president be a success. But he hasn't been. He is inexperienced, he isn't wise, and he doesn't understand where or why he is going wrong.
The presidency is not a "my way or the highway job", you are supposed to look out and see what is best for the country and do your best to provide it to us. You have to work with both parties, you have to aim for the center line, and you have to consider the consequences of your actions in the future. And you are supposed to leave politics at the door before you walk in. He spends more time advocating for the Dems than he does working on the problems of our country.
I remember seeing his face after the first security briefing, he wasn't smiling anymore. The presidency is not a job for a rookie , you need someone who is experienced and can heed advice from experienced people that they are wise enough to surround themselves with, not their friends, not their cronies, not someone they owe.
I am sad he isn't succeeding (IMO) but his lack of success has nothing to do with the color of his skin.
"they have no idea what's going on over here..."
what kind of attitude is that? I personally think it would be much easier going through with our messed up political system if we had closer ties to the people of Europe.
Kinda ironic that you mention the "My way or the highway" comment, as that is exactly what W used on the democrats from 2000-2006. He also surrounded himself with yes men and cronies as well. Hell, he even got his boss Dick Cheney to pretend to be V.P. for all of that time. Let's not kid ourselves, todays politicians are entrenched in the mantra of having to pay back those who supported them, and it shows everyday when I see what is going on in politics. 99% of those politicians are not really looking out for their constituents best interests, but what and who will get them re-elected to continue to sponge off of the taxpayers. Quite disappointing and disheartening on both sides of the aisle.
You are right that experience is essential, but so is the willingness to listen to the citizens and all opinions, something almost all politicians seem to be tone deaf at these days.
As proof that I'm not a racist I'll just say this
I'm a white man and I hate 1/2 of Obama...the 1/2 that came from his mom...the white half.
You all need to get over this "the only reason they hate him is because he's black" thing.
If Joe Biden was President and had done all of these same things I would still disagree with him just as strongly. If it was Hilary Clinton I'd disagree with her just as strongly.
My disagreement with Obama has nothing to do with his race and has EVERYTHING to do with his policies.
Just because you disagree with "some" of his policies it doesn't make you a racist. I'm a person of color and I don't agree with everything Obama is doing. I don't like that my hard earned money is going to those who don't give back. Free healthcare is one. These funds should go to education and maybe defense when war is upon us, IMHO.
Perhaps the smart people are really the ones that can work, but choose not to, and get things handed to them free. hmmm
Maybe I'm racist for thinking this, but it seems to me that Mr. Obama is perfectly happy to jump into race baiting to get his votes. Like speaking to a crowd of latinos 'don't forget who your friends are when you go to vote' followed by the same words in Spanish (but with a lousy accent) I mean, he's probably right looking at the right wing immigration frenzy, but still, since when did it become acceptable to openly pander to specific ethnic groups and pit them against your opponent? I thought Mr. King died to put a stop to that.
Oh my GOD how sad...
We, as Americans, have a bad tendency to deride and come to hate the current administration, no matter who they are. As to the Tea Party, I fear this is an ongoing trend, that this country is sinking into a morass of hate, isolationism, fanaticism. We've done this before, we will do it again. The almighty dollar has won.
Great post.
This is exactly right. It doesn't matter who is elected, give them six months and the American people will be bleating for an impeachment. The article is correct on several points - Obama inherited the economic catastrophe, change can't happen overnight, and he's not a miracle worker (especially when our Congress is hellbent on destroying everything he touches). And I'm inclined to believe that his race trumps all as far as Americans are concerned. I don't think they're as ready for a black (Hispanic, woman, gay) president as they thought they were.
Hear, hear, BStancliff -- it's an unfortunate situation but I believe you nailed it! I guess we all need to re-read (or for a great number of you, READ for the 1st time) The Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire.
What a sad attempt at promoting Obama by attempting to give the appearance that Europe likes him and can't understand why American's don't. Europeans were never as hypnotized by the media's love affair with this phony as American's were ... and France? They are rioting in the streets because their retirement age got increased 2 years but we're supposed to believe that they can't understand the disillusionment in someone who more than tripled our budget deficit to bail out Wall Street, pushed an extremely expensive and unwanted healthcare takeover on the people, and stands with Mexico's president against America protecting it's own border.... if this happened in France the guillotines would have already been rolled into the town square.
Uhhmmm, it was Bush who bailed out Wall Street. And while I don't particularly care for Obama, I travel in Europe quite extensively and I can assure you that he is very well liked there. They though Bush was an idiot, which he was, and they think Obama is the messiah, which he is not.
Agreed, agreed. agreed, he is not the saviour, he is JUST A MAN!
Conservatives have known this all along. It's the liberals, uh, excuse me, "Progressives" that think, or thought, he's the messiah.
During an interview Obama told one group of Americans that they should punish another group of Americans. Remember when he said there is only one America. His record and his comments prove he has done more to divide American than to unite the country. He claimed he would unite not divide. Another promise he has not kept.
You can't bring two sides together, when one doesn't want to be brought together.
I too am dismayed at the ignorance of the American Voter . Obama was elected in a landslide and soon after, the Republican party initiated a program of character assassination. Then they decided to oppose all programs/legislation proposed by the Obama administration and earned the dubious label of "Party of NO". The interesting part was that this opposition was not based upon the quality or need of the individual legislative attempts. No, this was a blatant program to deny the Obama administration ANY success even if it cost the American people or the country.
This focus on "politics all the time no matter the harm to the country" is abominable and shows the Republican leaders to be petty and self-interested sore losers.
I was a Republican Party member for over 30 years until the morass that was the Bush Administration embarrassed me and caused me to re-think my politics. These peole don't care about our country. Their only thought is "win at any cost even if we have to lie, cheat, etc. AND even if it deprives the nation of needed action.
While the ignorance of the Ameircan voter is truly a mystery, I still have confidence that, in the end logic will prevail and the political center will prevail as it has in the past. People like Carl Rove are not properly dressed, they should don thier Brown Shirts and jack boots to properly reflect their actions......
Wow! Well said, Al. But stand by for a flood of vitriolic replies. It's amazing how few people recognize - or acknowledge - the Party of No's efforts at obstruction or its effects on the return to prosperity for this nation. It's also disappointing how the Dems fail to point these observations out to the general public. Disagreement is fine; but, trashing programs that proved their worth during the 1929-35 Depression without replacing with ANY beneficial programs is completely irresponsible. Thank you for your comment. Nice to find a thinking human being for a change.....
Well said. Thanks.
AL-1062937
AMEN!!!
Come on Career Politicians caring about people... No they ALL care about getting reelected and keeping their jobs. Democrats like to give money to groups to garnish their votes just as Republicans support their backers.. Their is a much corruption in the Democratic party as the Republican party and do not think the Dems are not doing the same thing....
This Country will only become prosperous again if we focus on jobs and job creations. Funny thing is when more people are at work you don't have to worry about raising taxes or providing Health Care, extending Unemployment, and so on.. All those government initiatives are patch work to the current problems of job loss. Oh and additional people at work means more tax revenue for the government and less deficit spending..
Oh and Jersey Bob programs created in the 1920 and 35 might not work in the current corporate and economic environment and all should be reviewed.. Just because it worked in the past does not mean it still works... just saying
Very, very well said!
Even watching our local midterm campaigns is enough to make me throw up my hands in defeat. There is no concern whatsoever for the constituents, but a mindless drive by both parties to destroy the other. Win at all costs. It's sickening and I'm appalled by the fact that we Americans are nothing but their pawns in some kind of chess game played to the death.
Al,
What I believe was that the few Republicans tried to limit the run-away spending on every bill initiated by the overwhelming Democratic majority. It was a feeble holding action at best, but now, they will actually have enough power to hamstring Obama and his crazy socialist agenda for the next two years. This may seem like the "party of no" to some, but to the enlightened, recently awakened American electorate, it is the "Party of KNOW".
I could not have said it better.
Was commenting on Al 1062937 -
You know, I hate how everyone calls the Republican party the "Party of No." What about the Democrats? They only vote yes because their Democratic Campaigner in Chief is in the big seat. Why not call the Democrats the "Party of Yes?" It sounds to me like they are just kissing rear end by blindly agreeing with Obama.
What dismays me is the ignorance of the American Democrat. The majority of americans disagree with all or part of Obamacare yet the democrats still find a way to force it down the throats of the american public.
It's the democrats who got us into this situation in the first place. Most Bush-bashers conviently ignore the fact that during the majority of his term in office, Bush had to deal with a democrat controlled congress. In my opinion, Bush did more for reaching across part lines than Obama has. I don't call forcing a bill down our throats by using loop-holes "reaching across party lines."
Democratic presidents are masters of passing legislation that makes their party look like geniuses while in office, but the lasting effects aren't felt until they are no longer in office. Look at Bill Clinton and free trade...the US prospered initially, but once companies realized they could be more profitable overseas, they left, and conviently for Clinton, he was out of office and Bush was now in charge. The last phases of the Obamacare legislation conviently go into effect in 2016. The same year that if he wins another term(heaven help us if he does), Obama would be reaching his term limit, conviently handing the mess he created over to his successor.
So, be dismayed by the ignorance of the American voter if you like, just remember those same ignorant voters put Obama in control in the first place.
AL-1062937. Don't you dare whine about the Obama critics. They are far milder than the Bush critics. And now that Bush is out of office and those top secret documents have come out, Bush was right about there being 'Weapons of Mass Destruction' chemicals in Iraq.
The left is far more verbally violent than the right and don't call me horrible names because you disagree, I'm not a Republican nor am I a member of any far right organization.
The ignorance was in electing a "rock star" (which looked good on the surface) instead of a legitimate president. The media propped him up and YOU bought it. As I look at this election I realize how important the primaries are. The Tea Party is just as guilty for putting up unqualified (look good on the surface) candidates.
I wanted Obama to succeed for my own selfish reasons, and he has pushed forward policies which don't pertain to the crisis of today (Health care, Cap and Trade, etc). Jobs are the Only thing that have mattered since he took office, and they have been completely discounted. He has been unfriendly to business and can't seem to understand why business's aren't expanding and creating the jobs. I personally own a company which is mired in the malaise of today. I want to expand, but I don't know what policy will come along tomorrow and change the way I do business, and I'm sure that is the way a lot of us feel. You want to know why the Chamber of Commerce had so many contributions ("it's the economy stupid").
Blaming the Republican for the last two years is insane. Why do I constantly hear "The Party of NO"? The Democrats have controlled the Congress, Senate and Executive Branch, Oh I guess it's because this is a dictatorship and they are not supposed to represent the people who elected them(Kind of like Health care -WHICH MOST AMERICANS ARE AGAINST (38% for it when it passed) - Being rushed through).
Yes, the ignorance of the uninformed American vote is a mystery ("We" elected an inexperienced rock star). So is the ignorance of the folks in Washington who have long ago abandoned the American people.
By the way, in 1994 the unemployment rate was 5.6% - today 9.6%. The "logic" will prevail - This I am sure.
Being called ignorant by someone that doesn't know me. Priceless!!!
You dumbocrat party hacks have no clue how to run anything, let alone a country. You must be told no by the adults in the room because you obviously have failed basic arithmetic in grammar school. Thank God the country has the sense to stop your socialist agenda before you further erode our economy and the American spirit.
The "party of NO" has been in the minority since 2006. The Dumbocrats have both Congress and the Presidency. Republicans have been shouting "NO" to the disastrous proposals of the Dimocrats, but the Democraps have had the votes to ram through any corrupt Stalinist nonsense they've wished. The Republicans have been powerless to stop them. That period of powerlessness is about to come to an end.
I suppose ya never heard of the filibuster (among other things basic to constitutional governance....)??? The Republicans have made it such that only a 60-vote majority in the Senate will permit legislation to pass. This has been imposed for major and minor issues. You might want to revisit your "powerless to stop" comment. It's disingenuous at best, but more likely just plain dumb.
The Republicans made a rule to require 60 voted for cloture???? I don't think so...
Thomas Woodrow Wilson (December 28, 1856 – February 3, 1924) was the 28th President of the United States. A leader of the Progressive Era, he served as President of Princeton University from 1902 to 1910, and then as the Governor of New Jersey from 1911 to 1913. With Theodore Roosevelt and William Howard Taft dividing the Republican Party vote, Wilson was elected President as a Democrat in 1912.
In his first term, Wilson persuaded a Democratic Congress to pass the Federal Reserve Act,. Federal Trade Commission Act, the Clayton Antitrust Act, the Federal Farm Loan Act and America's first-ever federal progressive income tax in the Revenue Act of 1913.
The cloture rule originally required a supermajority of two-thirds of all senators "present and voting" to be considered filibuster-proof. For example, if all 100 Senators voted on a cloture motion, 67 of those votes would have to be for cloture for it to pass; however if some Senators were absent and only 80 Senators voted on a cloture motion, only 54 would have to vote in favor.[6] However, it proved very difficult to achieve this; the Senate tried eleven times between 1927 and 1962 to invoke cloture but failed each time. Filibuster was particularly heavily used by Democratic Senators from Southern states to block Civil Rights legislation.
In 1975, the Democratic Senate Majority, having achieved a net gain of four seats in the 1974 Senate elections to a strength of 61 (with an additional Independent caucusing with them for a total of 62), reduced the necessary supermajority to three-fifths (60 out of 100).
In 1975, the Democratic Senate majority, having achieved a net gain of four seats in the 1974 Senate elections to a strength of 61 (with an additional Independent caucusing with them for a total of 62), reduced the necessary supermajority to three-fifths (60 out of 100). However, as a compromise to those who were against the revision, the new rule also changed the requirement for determining the number of votes needed for a cloture motion's passage from those Senators "present and voting" to those Senators "duly chosen and sworn". Thus, 60 votes for cloture would be necessary regardless of whether every Senator voted. The only time a lesser number would become acceptable is when a Senate seat is vacant. (For example, if there were two vacancies in the Senate, thereby making 98 Senators "duly chosen and sworn", it would only take 59 votes for a cloture motion to pass.)[6]
The new version of the cloture rule, which has remained in place since 1975, makes it considerably easier for the Senate majority to invoke cloture. This has considerably strengthened the power of the majority, and allowed it to pass many bills that would otherwise have been filibustered. (The Democratic Party had held a two-thirds majority in the 89th congress of 1965, but regional divisions among Democrats meant that many filibusters were invoked by Southern Democrats against civil rights bills supported by the Northern wing of the party.) Some senators wanted to reduce it to a simple majority (51 out of 100) but this was rejected, as it would greatly diminish the ability of the minority to check the majority.
Is anyone surprised? In France they shut down the country when their retirement age of 60 is threatened. However, in America the Teanuts lead the charge to raise the retirement age well over 70, abolish SS, repeal health care and generally help the filthy rich while destroying the middle class of which they are a part.
Such lunacy cannot be fiction. The teanuts are the laughing stock of the world!
OK you lunatics, time to pile on and make sure you give me a good heel to the neck.
Jim, everything should be free right? You should be cared for cradle to grave right? Its so easy to say let there be social security at 60. How nice. I might give someone credit if they made such a point and then immediately dove into the details how it would be paid for. At least acknowledge there is a deficit and our current spending is irresponsible.
B-e-n
Aw geez, you guys make me sick. Here I am, just wiping the poop off my boots after dealing with Notasoc and now I have to wade back into the cesspool with you.
NOBODY is saying everything should be free. No one has EVER said that.
What we have said is exactly what Jesus said 2000 year ago. There are people in this world who are less fortunate than us. They are not lazy. They are the working poor. The struggle to make ends meet. They don't want a hand out, but they need our help.
We need to level the playing field. Make sure that every child has a chance at the American dream. Make sure they have health care and dental care and nutritious food to eat and competent teachers with the right equipment to give them a good education.
Bad things happen to good people. They are born into poverty. They suffer from debilitating disease. Their parents were unable to properly love them or educate them or provide for them. The cycle of poverty needs to be broken and if there is any country on this planet that can do it WE CAN.
If EVERYBODY helps and that includes the rich, we can help those less fortunate than us. I'm 60 years old and far from rich but I would pay 2% more in taxes to help people who are trying to help themselves. I am planning to retire at 62 but I would work 5 more years if by doing so it would mean everybody could have healthcare and all our children would have an equal chance at success.
What you complain about is a fable, a myth. Not everybody on welfare is a black woman with ten kids who spends her assistance check on beer and cigs. In fact, NO ONE does that. The majority of people on public assistance are working poor. Most of them are working TWO jobs, neither of which provide any benefits. You know how I know that? My daughter is one of them. She has a master's degree but works two part-time jobs and can't make ends meet. She would be on public assistance if it weren't for us. She's not spending her check on beer, cigs and trips to Las Vegas. She's buying food, paying rent and buying gaseline. Neither of her jobs offer her insurance or any other benefit.
She is typical of the working poor. Luckily she is not trying to support a child and she does have her parents to help her. But most are not that fortunate.
So stop perpetuating that tired myth.
We can do this if we all pull together. If we don't pull together we are going to pull this country apart.
Skip
If you're serious about being willing to pay 2% higher taxes to help those who are trying to help themselves are you currently donating that 2% to charities that do help those people? Or are you mindlessly waiting for the government to tell you that they're going to take the extra 2%?
If you really do care about helping those people then not only are you already giving that 2% to charity; you'll continue to do so even after the government starts taking their 2% as well.
I am not rich by any means, but I've got to say I'm getting tired of people ripping on the rich for not paying their share. Not only are they paying their own share, they're paying the shares of the 50% of the country that pays absolutely no taxes.
People that financially don't need to take advantage of government services are paying for those services for people who pay no taxes.
What do Democrats want...a hard cap on how much money someone can make?
"Excuse me sir, I wanted to congratulate you on getting $20 million. I'm also here to collect $19,750,000 of it because under US law you are only allowed to make $250,000 a year and anything over that becomes the immediate property of the government. Thank you very much sir."
Is that where we're headed as a nation?
Is that what Obama wants to do...punish people for succeeding?
Skip,
Go ahead and pay the extra 2% in taxes. The IRS will take the payment. Also, I think you are off on WWI, the Germans sent Lenin to start the revolution in Russia to they could move their troops to the western front. You had the French troops in widespread mitinies after the failure o the Nivelle offensive in 1917. The French and English took a beating in March 1918 but did hold. America put 600,000 troops in July of 1918 and a total of 1.5 million by August that same year. There were plans for a January offensive with 100 American divisions however German could only muster 300,000 young boys for the defense. November 1918 the Treaty of Versailles and the being of World War II. P.S. Amercia lost around 55,000 men in combat in about 6 months with a total of 120,000 for the war. This includes non-combat deaths as well.
Thanks Todd, always nice to know a man who can link to wikipedia. I wish I could remember the name of that book I just read on the Argonne offensive. dang it. Anyway, I took away from that book that the Argonne was a disaster for American troops because Pershing beleive that the bayonet was the true American weapon and mass attacks were the way to go. He disdained the use of machine guns, etc.
The Brits and French tried to tell him and offered to mentor his generals and troops but he refused. He wanted his American Division to remain in American hands. We lost a lot of boys to his ineptitude.
Yes, the French mutinied and the mutinies were crushed. They and the Brits were nearly bled white. But so were the Germans. And things at home in Germany weren't so rosey either. The Russians, as you note, were not a factor. We were more of a morale boost than an actual fighting factor in the field because our troops were so poorly handled. Despite that the Marines in the Argonne and others distinguished themselves and Alvin York made his reputation there.
If you can guarantee my lonely 2% tax contribution will guarantee every child in America a good education, a nutritious meal and adequate health care I will gladly pay it, as well as work the extra five years to fund it. But I doubt it will be enough unless you pitch in as well.
Same for you Zendo, if we all pitch in 2% (including the rich) we won't hardly feel it and it will help so many people.
Zendo,
Excellent point. I prefer to help others by choosing which causes/programs/charities I give my money to. The causes I give to (and believe me, I am so far from rich it ain't even funny, but I give anyway) are ones that I have researched and know how my money is being used. I believe wholeheartedly in the teachings of Jesus and know I should help my fellow human beings. But Jesus never said we should be forced to help others, He wanted us to give of ourselves freely. I don't want the government spending money (our money) it doesn't have on programs that don't work and that I have very little say over.
I am not saying I shouldn't pay taxes or that all social or public programs should be eliminated. But the reality is, OUR COUNTRY DOES NOT HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO PAY FOR ALL THE PROGRAMS WE HAVE IN PLACE. Like it or not, we are mired in debt and show no signs of improving anytime in the next century. We MUST put the brakes on the spending. It doesn't matter what your political leanings are (I am unaffiliated myself), we must acknowledge that the overspending must stop. No wonder Americans are so in debt and irresponsible, our government teaches them that that is the way to live and that it is ok!!!
I don't want to argue with anyone. I want us all to calmly discuss the things most important to us and rationally work out compromises on how to accomplish the most with the resources we have. If our wonderful politicians would just behave that way, think of what we could do as a nation!!
Obama the first European president of the United States -- never made an honest living -- never worked in the private sector -- always lived off the hard work of others -- an academic elite -- he has no idea how the world really works - why is he the most powerful man on Earth!!??
How do we know he's an academic elite? His college records are sealed....just like many other records of his life.
Ok guys, you've got to make up your minds. Is he a "European president" or a "Kenyan Anticolonial"?
Is he a "Nazi" or is he a "Commie/Socialist"? Is he half white or half black? Which is it going to be?
First of all you need to clarify your rhetoric. Pick one demigoge and go with his vision of reality, OK?
Geez, you guys are dumber than a bag of rocks.
European president? Duh Whuts dat dad? Talk to me. Half white half black? Who cares, he is an American. He tried to over turn the damage that GW did to everything American and make things right. But this is an impossible task.
The people who run this country are more interested in business than it's people. Those richest 5% run the show and all those tea baggers actually think that their rants and their votes will make 'things' better are fools. America is in a free fall, going downhill fast
Agreed Gart and I'm proud to call him Mr. President. But some of the bozoes posting above can't make up their minds. They need to get together and vote or something. They are just making each other look stupid. Well, I know, it's not that hard, but really, I think they could do better and then I'd feel better about beating them up everyday. I was taught not to pick on smaller children, girls and folks who wear glasses. I'm just trying to stay within those guidelines. If these guys would get their act together and reach out a grab a vocabulary other than "Oh yeah" then I'd feel like I was picking on someone my own size.
Well Skip, at least you've acknowledged that you are bully. That's the first step. Now, if only we can get you to acknowledge that all bullies are cowards. And what, I wonder, are you cowering from? What scares Skip from Oklahoma so much that he rants like a child on newsvine? Maybe the Elections on Tuesday? Hmm?
The sad fact of the matter is, Skip from Oklahoma is no better than the "teanuts" he keeps on about. Skip just falls on the other side of the aisle and is a perfect representation of why the two party system is inherently flawed. He, like many of his like-minded compatriots, are so far left they can't even see the aisle with a telescope, let alone the fine ladies and gentleman on the other side of it (some who are straining vainly to reach across it). There are plenty so far right that they are in an identical predicament. It is a flaw, and an obvious one at that.
As for everyone harping on about "the party of no" I have a mental exercise that I would like you to imagine, if you will indulge me. Imagine that you are presented with a spot of land, a nice lot, let's say an acre for arguments sake. The contractor has agreed to build a house for you, but first he erects a large fence and a screen, so that you cannot see what he is building. He then proceeds to build this house. When you ask for a floor plan, you are denied. When you try to suggest where the front door should be, you are told not to interfere. In fact, during the whole process you are told you cannot have any say whatsoever in the house that is being built, ostensibly for you and your family. Now, the house is complete and the contractor asks you to sign the payment, a mortgage (for the sake of argument) of a million dollars.
"Let me see the house first, before I sign," you protest.
"No," he says. "You sign or you don't, I don't care. For the house is built despite."
Now, would you sign for the mystery house? Or would you, like I believe most intelligent people would, tell the contractor that you would not? Because, after all: you had no say in its construction, no say in its lay out or implementation, no say in whether it had one floor or ten, no say in who was contracted to do the plumbing or electrics, no say at any level whatsoever.
Are you really so surprised, then, when the Republicans who were shut out from the entire drafting of the health care bill said no? Remember, they may be called the "party of no" but another party said no first. They said they were going to go ahead with the bill anyway, despite any objection (including the majority of Americans. I think we are smart enough to see how government controlled healthcare is faring in other countries--not well).
Remember always that bigotry and divisiveness is at the heart of what's wrong with American politics and Skip from Oklahoma is a shining example.
"Republacrat, Democran: One Party System!" ---Sage Francis.
Because firstly, European countries and governments have been around and survived and evolved for many, many centuries, while our country is the very young, great experiment of some genius men who defied a King... Just because we don't see eye to eye about everything, doesn't mean we can't learn from eachother.... and secondly, Economies are not contained and localized as they used to be... everything is globally connected and intertwined... what happens across the pond can have significant impact here, and vice versa...
Side note: To anyone that feels they are disillusioned with the "all talk, no action" policies of BOTH parties,
or feel you are a member of one party more by default, because you are repulsed by the other party...
I encourage you to take 5 minutes to look at the basic ideas of the Libertarian Party here...
http://www.lp.org/platform
This is more like what the founding fathers had in mind....
Good God people...Why do my fellow American feel the need to display their ignorance, fear, and xenophobia at every opportunity. I am starting to wonder is de-evolution has begun.
Mike, Ignorance is what got him elected.
Dissent means I am ignorant, fearful, and xenophobic.........you lose your argument
To believe in de-evolution, you first have to believe in evolution.............
good comment - de-evolution has not only begun, it's been going on for 10 years at least.
To my fellow Americans, and our esteemed friends from the great nation of Europe (The capital is London, right?),
You are all ignorant, by which I imply that I know secrets about life that you don't, but I'm not telling you what they are. I swear the first company to develop a "sarcasm" font will make millions.
It seems that any political/ideological discussions with people I disagree with more often than not begin or end with something along the lines of "You are ignorant." It's a cop-out. It's writing off the person next to you as being too stupid to have an intelligent conversation with, and certainly being too stupid to learn from. Once you pick a term like that to label someone, it becomes natural to disregard anything they say without even the trouble of considering the content of their words. I saw someone refer to Obama as, "The Great Divider," and I've certainly heard the same about his predecessor, G-Dubb. However they are just figure heads given this shape by the divisions that exist here (well, in the real world) in our own minds and hearts. On the streets and in forums like this is where people are divided, and we do it to ourselves.
Whoops, didn't mean that to be a response to Mike. Sorry!
Mike; "Devolution." This is a good way to describe the new America.
If they love him so much they can have it.
The great divider began polarizing one group after another from the getgo and managed to shoot what little political wad he had without even nowing it. Now, he is nothing more than a flounderer in chief, wondering where his support is coming from. He is having to traipse from one half-wit news show to another, trying to re-create what he has squandered.
I am still amazed at the incredible simplicity if not stupidity of the masses here in the USA who expect Obama to exercise God-like powers singlehandedly when the Republicans have thrown every possible block and dam into his path. Obama is a human being obliged to deal with the worst political disasters of economics and international relations inherited from the Bush/Chaney era. He is light years ahead of his countrymen in vision, and if we the people had any interest in supporting him in his effort to correct national direction, and not merely passing blame, Obama would prove himself to be absolutely the best as national and international leader. He has the smarts; it is a question whether we have.
Barry has already stated his contempt for stupids and the enemy.........how to make friends.........
Harry:
what blocks and dams have been thrown in Obama's path? His party has controlled the House, Senate and Executive branch for two years. Because of this control he was able to ram through the most economicaly devastating programs imaginable. Talk about blame, how many times have you heard him disperse blame for his failures? Countless times.
Put this on a personal level. Would you as the head of your household, facilitate your family taking on so much debt that your children and grandchildren will be paying for it 40 years down the road? Why do you approve of your country doing so?
What Obama has proven himself to be is an inept, aloof and out of touch politician espousing ideas which have brought Europe to its knees and now threatens to do the same to us.
"I am still amazed at the incredible simplicity if not stupidity of the masses here in the USA who expect Obama to exercise God-like powers singlehandedly"
Oprah called him "The One". There was a newspaper columnist in San Fran who called him "the Lightworker". Obama's campaign, while expertly executed, basically promised everyone unicorns that poop Skittles and flatulate Love. Given all that, I don't think you can blame Americans for their high expectations.
Let's remember..the dems don't need the republicans to put through a single thing..they can do it on their own. THE ARE THE MAJORITY!!! The don't need the republicans to get anything done!!! Yet, when something doesn't pass..they blame the republicans..when the real problem is that they can't even get their own party to totally agree. Whiney babies claiming the republicans blocked everything...but the dems pushed it through, even though poll after poll showed the american people didn't want what they were selling. But, hey, we're just dumb american people. We don't know any better...so the dems. need to "teach" us..well, we're going to teach them next week. The PEOPLE run this country..not the politicans. And it burns me up when people make dislike for Obama about race..that is the lowest form of stupudity to say "if you don't like him, you're racist". Dumb, dumb, dumb to say that. Are some people racist?I am sure...but I AM NOT ONE OF THEM!!! I don't agree with Obama, but I don't hate him, I don't fear him. But I won't vote for his policies.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha -- so he is too smart for us -- ha ha ha ha ha--
Armando, that was one of the funniest post I've seen...Thanks for the laugh.
His OWN SUPPORTERS touted him as the savior of all that is wrong with America. He took that tout and ran with it.
Your comment ignores the basic fact that the Democrats have clear majorities in both houses of Congress. However, when Democrats get clear majorities, they fracture--always. Don't forget that representatives are there to represent their local constituency, not to be a party goon. And in many cases, the people being represented are far to the right of the Democratic party. Representatives, especially new ones, cross that line at their political peril.
I prefere more freedom and more personally responsibility to Socialism
If I fail I blame no one but myself..
Poop skittles.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!
To Jack Armeo; Those 'Blocks" have been and are the power of the Party of No! The Repubilcians have taken a vacation from governing this Great Country and put all their energy time and our resiousces to stop Obama from accomplishing anything! They are using Fox news as their public relations committie.
They do not want President Obama to succed in any way at all. They want him to fail. This is their agenda make no mistake about it. Read, look at the news, the speeches the Republicans make and you have to see it.
Kelly, you say; "The PEOPLE run this country..not the politicans..."
I had to laugh out loud! This was the case when I was a young man. But it is not the case anymore. Big Business runs the politicians, the politicians go along with the lobbiests employed by Big Business and create laws to help Big Business get bigger stronger more powerful, and, eventually to powerful to be stopped.
This is when America will not be Socialist, Democratic, or a Republic. It will be a country of workers/laborers working for and servicing the rich. America will be a small weak country as many of the worlds countries; like China, will prosper and be wnat we were in the 1950's and 1960's; growing and prospering.
We lost it when we went into Irag! Old man Sadam messed us up good. Thanks GW.
you Europeans can have him. we sure don't want more flakes in our cereal
I think Europe was more surprised when enough intelligent American voters existed in 2008 to put a fantastic President in office. I guess now they will be re-surprised when a band of idiots are voted in in 2010 without a single policy proposal on the table. Alas, it appears that 2008 may have been an anomaly and the average American voter is indeed an uninformed buffoon.
In the meantime, all those horrible big-government socialists in Europe are enjoying the highest quality of life in the world, the strongest middle class in the world, a democratic electoral system essentially free of corporate influence, a media that actually informs its citizens, representational equality for women in political office, a social safety net that has kept their society's most vulnerable safe from catastrophe during the economic downturn, world-class government-administered universal healthcare, higher life expectancy, and leading the world in renewable energy. Look at the horror of those socialist policies! Apparently taxing the rich at a reasonable rate and investing that money in the middle class isn't so bad after all!
While Europe was doing all that, Reagan, Bush and the modern Republican Party decided to slash taxes for the wealthiest 1% and declare everything that isn't buying multi-billion dollar weapons systems a "waste of taxpayer money." Result: deficit, national debt, the highest concentration of wealth in the developed world, the highest poverty rate in the developed world, no healthcare system for its citizens, crippling poverty, degraded infrastructure, bottom-of-the-barrel education, no energy future (Reagan said "no problem guys, keep using oil, it's the best! I'm gonna slash Carter's energy plan because... hmm... I'm not sure! Oh yeah, we can't afford that future investment stuff, we have to give millionaires a 50% tax cut slash so they can buy themselves these sweet new private jets!"
Ha ha ha.
I hate to be the guy to drop a turd in the punch bowl, but aren't there a bunch of countries in Europe that are on the verge of going bankrupt because of their huge welfare states? And wasn't there rioting in France the other day because the French government voted to raise the retirement age from 60 to 62?
It's all well and good to have all these government services, but how sustainable is it in the long run, particularly when you bring into account falling birth rates, the rise of BRIC, radical Islam, etc.?
Thank you, Armanda, my thoughts exactly. The far left believe that these sorts of welfare policies can be implemented indefinatley, ignoring the mounting debt that they cause--meanwhile (back at the swamp) the far right believe that "righteous wars" can be fought indefinately, ignoring the mounting debt that they cause. Both sides accuse the other for the debt problem, but both are responsible for it. Lately, more some than others, but in the long view of history it will be AMERICA'S DEBT, not Republican debt vs. Democrat debt.
"Rebuplicrat, Democran: One Party System!" -- Sage Francis
Enough said...............
This is why we don't allow Europe to vote in our elections............
Thank you. It's been coming, but these posts have finally convinced me to stop reading the comments. No intelligent life can be found.
I wonder how anybody expected that President Obama (or any president) in 24 months could fix almost a decade of disaster? I think the expectations have been unrealistic all along. I do think he's doing the best he can with what he's got, esp. considering all the opposition and non-cooperation he and his administration have been receiving.
How successful does anybody think McCain would have been in this situation?
Your argument is adolescent............
The disaster started a decade ago with a democratic Congress....stop trying to give this away.......
Cause the Tea Pees and Righties would much prefer an old GOPher staggering around with a cutie tagging along behind than someone with living brain cells like Obama.
I agree with you MariaH. Who would you vote for;
One who don't understand economics has a person as a running mate who has never left the country (no passport), whose campaign is based on catering to one small segment of an extremist group (as if the whole country was made up of them), exclusive, probably never met a poor person
OR
A person who has a vision, is inclusive and has hope (no matter how unrealistic it might be) for the betterment of our society.
As for who cares about what Europe thinks ... what planet do we live on....we should be glad that they care and are interested enough to give an opinion. Such ignorance and arrogance blows my mind.
Europe is the parent, we are the child. We left Europe to make a better world. Sometimes it has been successful, sometimes not. Everything we go through, Europe has been through first. Politically, religiously, socially. They had civil wars in the 1700s. They had World Wars before they became world-wide. We would be wise to pay attention to what happens in Europe. Much as we would be wise to listen to our parents. And perspective from another viewpoint is not worthless. He who does not learn from history is doomed to repeat it...
The best thing about Obama so far has been that he isn't McCain, who could have easily pulled the US into a literal Great Depression II. Bush left the country teetering on the brink and a fool like McCain could have finished it off. The republicans will be back to reduce the regulatory process and allow crooks to run rampant again... as they did during the Bush financial disaster and the Reagan/Bush S&L debacle. Stay tuned for much more mayhem as the GOP throws us to the wolves again and again.
What McCain could have or would have done really doesn't matter. He didn't win. Bush isn't on the ballot, but there are those who still think he is. This election is proving 1 thing. It's on BO now. No more excuses. No more blame. It's time to get it done. He has 2 years to bring a lot more to the table than he has now. He will succeed or fail on his merits. In Clinton's first midterm, there was a 54 Republican seat swing. They did work together and got things done. Bo's will have to do the same thing.
@fielden - Europe was our parent over 230 years ago. We are now owned by China
MariaH - Couldn't agree more. We gave Bush 7 years to "find Bin-Laden", but Obama can't even get 4 to fix the messes we were put in?
DaneLover - I agree that this all started over a decade ago, though I would like to point out that Congress has only been controlled by Democrats for the last 4 of those years.
Mariah, you are right on. Another "adolescent" agrees with you. I'm 70 by the way.
Not only dragging a decade of disaster; but the people of this country think you can turn the economy around in 2 years?! What a bunch of "instant gratification" freaks. It took two wars and nearly 25 years to wipe out the last great depression. I find the changes in this turnaround almost breathtakingly fast in comparison....
Just like when you pay bills -- If you make CHANGE it takes time
Democrats have been in control of policy for nearly four years, not two. Obama played no role rescuing the US financial system, but with George Soros played a huge role trying to bring it down.
1> Subprime lending Obama taught ACRON and other activist groups to pressure and intimidate banks to loan money to people with poor credit and work history.
2> Obama assisted with a lawsuit to force banks to loan to minorities with poor credit etc.
3>Nov 2007, Obama with Chris Dodd inserted "Mark to Market" law into an unrelated bill to fund ongoing operations in Iraq. 3 Bush Admin efforts to reign in Fannie and Freddie, and to backstop bad loans is stopped by Democrats in the House and Senate in the month of November. (17 attempts between 2003 and 2007 in total blocked some way, including six times by Obama and Chris Dodd)
4>March 2008 "Uptick Rule" relaxed by Paulson after Obama and Dodd threatened him with hearings.
5>George Soros fundraising for the Obama campaign (through about 30 front groups) reaches $100 million.
6>George Soros meets with fund managers for 7 Foreign Sovereign Wealth Funds, Russia, and six Middle Eastern entities, on March 4th 2008.
7>Soros meets with Obama 16 times between April 2008 and Oct 2008.
8>Soros "Boiler Room" fund managers begin to naked short sell US bank and financial institution stocks beginning in March 2008. Those 7 foreign Sovereign Wealth Funds begin to withdraw billions out of US financial firms and banks. Pace of withdrawals accelerate reaching $400 billion in the Third Week of Sept 2008 alone. Soros makes billions from his naked short selling effort.
9>Paulson announces TARP in October.
It is obvious a crisis of sorts would have been triggered sooner or later. The later, the WORSE it would have been for the economy. It is clear timing of the crisis was orchestrated by Soros to assist electing Obama into office. These facts will come out in a new Congressional Investigation starting this Spring. Obama did not "inherit" a crisis, he like many Republicans contributed quite a bit to it. It was GOVERNMENT POLICY and bureaucratic ineptness that led to it. Obama did not save the banking system, TARP did, put in by Paulson and Bush. Obama contributed "Stimulus" which was too sluggish to help much. His healthcare bill is already increasing costs, decreasing R+D, and hospital construction. We need divided government. It worked with Clinton, and it will work now...
Nice to see someone did their homework. A-
... I would have called George Soros a foul name or two to spice it up to the A+
"Republicrat, Democran: One Party System!" -- Sage Francis
Great post. Hope someone goes to jail over it.
I have friends in both Germany and Denmark. I write to them all the time explaining how are system of government works, and what the current mood is amongst voters. It is surprising to me that they take such an interest in our politics. Where I don't care how their systems work and how they feel about their leaders.
Obama was a huge mistake allowed by the sleeping, apathetic electorate. He was very inexperienced, both in politics, and in life in general. He had, and still has, a socialist agenda, and doesn't understand that the government here in America is the people. We are the government. He tends to either ignore the will of the people, or to regard us as ignorant, bible-thumping, gun-caressing, hillbillies who need to just shut up and take his liberal medicine. He will go down in history as a delusioned, egotistical, idealistic, idiot that just cost the American people four years of progress, and several trillion dollars that we just don't have.
Edward, since you admittedly don't care about what the rest of the world thinks or how they feel about their leaders I would like to know how you became so well versed on socialism, and what you describe as a socialist agenda. I don't even think you know our system of government. The electorate wasn't sleeping or apathetic. You were. Your beleif in the principles the founding fathers set for us is admirable, but that ship has sailed. Our government is not the people. It is a bunch of stooges bought and paid for by corporations, banks, and foreign investors. Imagine if McCain and Palin would have won. What progress would have been made? We wouldn't be any better off or probably worse. The court would be 6-3 instead of 5-4. It would be a disaster. Oh, and what exactly is the will of the people that you speak for? Perhaps it is you who is ignorant. Hopefully, you will be able to support your mindless points with facts. I doubt it though.
Facts are: In 2000 we endured the Tech Bubble collapse. On 9/11/2001 we were attacked, which had a dramatic effect upon our economy. Despite these 2 significant factors and fighting 2 wars- for 6 out of 8 years-the economy and GDP grew at above average rates. The stock market grew in value and the DOW hit 14, 500. Unemployment averaged 4.5% (Basically full employment for anybody wanting to work) Dems took TOTAL control of both houses in January of 2007and immediately started huge deficit spending and expansion of entitlement programs and social policies. Under Democratic control the banking industry was pressured and eventually forced to make mortgages and extend credit cards and equitline credit to people on stated income for amounts they could not afford (Frank&Dodd). Wall St (which gives more to Democrats then Republicans) started using Derivitives and Bundling to sell these worthless pieces of paper with the full knowledge of the SEC and Democratic party Congressional oversight committee chairmen, which eventually encompassed the entire banking community and caused the crisis of November 2008. To say Bush or the Republicans were solely to blame for our financial crisis- to quote Hilary clinton "would take the willful suspension of disbelief". Democrats since WWII have created a dependent social underclass and entitlement mentality that has resulted in 130 trillion in mandated and unfunded entitlement programs-even though we only take in 3 trillion in total annual revenues!!! That makes us insolvent and technically bankrupt. The only reason we can continue is we can print our own valueless currency and sell our debt to China & Japan. We cannot continue without making draconian cuts-eventually our economy will collapse and we will suffer the consequences of having 50% of the population live off of the other 50%. Socialism has failed, or is failing, wverywhere it has been implemented. Quasi Socialism like we have-will just take a little longer!!
AMEN!
The 2008 election now is showing it's fruit...and quite frankly the fruit is rotten. When the Democrat's won in that year I said one of two things will happen....their policy's will be succesful and they will enjoy a long stay in Washington, OR their policy's will fail and the only way they will see DC again will be by postcard. I think the nation understands that they later should be installed coming this next election. We should all buy postcards now while we can still afford the postage or have a postal service that is still operating. Which brings me to another point...if you want to know how well goverment handle's business look at the USPS. Compare it to UPS, or FED-EX. One question, where would you won't to invest your money? This election is about getting goverment back to doing what it was founded upon....keeping us safe within our borders, and maintaing a our freedoms. Goverment does not have the ability to run a "business" without losing money hand over fist. The reason is: the bottom line is never about the "bottom line". It is about keeping thier well paid tax-payer jobs, and seeing how many of thier friends that they can get hired also. Enough is enough!!! Most people just want America to be America again!!
First of all, according to a recent Harris poll, Obama's approval rating domestically has fallen to 37%, and is not 47% as this article noted.
Secondly, some of the most penetrating criticism of Obama and his administration I've read has come from the British press in particular. Which means, of course, that many Europeans get it too, and fewer Europeans are scratching their head than suggested in this article over Obama's fall from the euphoric highs post-election to their current lows. How many years do we need to see a supremely arrogant condescending leftist radical in action before drawing a conclusion, and responding at the polling booth accordingly?
I agree. The Europeans want him they can have him. He has done nothing for the majority of the American people. All of his so called hope and change is for a very small nanority groups of people. The cost are then pased on to all the rest. He needs to go.